austin_militaria Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 I spent about 3 hours with a powder ball trying to get some detail out of this. And have been very happy with what I see. Has some exceptional characteristics. Here is what I see. Kodachi, Nagasa 51cm. Kasane 5mm at the mune-machi Sori 2.5cm Nakago, 13cm. Sugata, an early shape to the Kamakura period. Mune, Ihori Boshi, San-Saku? Hada, a mixture of Itame small mokume. Hamon, (this is where I have the hardest time describing). Smokey, Bounces around in the light. Primarily Notare with some rounded ganome. A very pronounced hamon. Please feel free to correct me or add anything. -Rob Quote
cabowen Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 It looks more soshu to me, maybe later Uda or the like....I would be inclined to think this is a gimei rather than a non-famous Nagamitsu... Quote
Marius Posted May 12, 2014 Report Posted May 12, 2014 Not kodachi. Wakizashi. Sue-Koto. Mino? Nice :D Just an opinion, please don't shoot I may be wrong Quote
Grey Doffin Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Chris, It wouldn't be a gimei of Nagamitsu since it is signed katana mei. Not Bizen work either. Sue-Koto makes sense to me also. Grey 1 Quote
Grey Doffin Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 If you say gimei of Nagamitsu the smith who comes to mind is Osafune Nagamitsu, who would have signed tachi mei. Which other Nagamitsu could there be a gimei of? Grey Quote
cabowen Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Grey- have you never seen a Tadayoshi/Tadahiro gimei signed katana-mei? Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 I thought for sure this was Bizen work. Am I correct about the Boshi being San-Saku? Quote
Jean Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Rob S., Am I correct about the Boshi being San-Saku? Rob, In your opinion what is a sansaku boshi and its "why"? Quote
Marius Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Rob, just to explain, the questions that Jean asks serve the general purpose of education. They will help you and others on this board to understand your sword better. They are not meant as mocking. That is Jean's (and a few other senior members' here) style, and it often produces a very good and educative discussion. Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 Rob S., Rob, In your opinion what is a sansaku boshi and its "why"? Sansaku boshi is where the the hamon straightens and through the yokote then turns upward to form a omaru. I am sure there is a more to it then that, and it could be that I have read to much about Osafune Nagamitsu that I am just assuming that is the style of boshi. I don't understand the second part of your question the "why"? -Rob Quote
Marius Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 It takes more than one characteristics to determine the school and master. By all means, study the boshi, but many other factors are also involved. What disqualifies this sword as Nagamitsu (and that even without comparing the signature to a shoshin mei): - length - katana mei - hamon Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 It takes more than one characteristics to determine the school and master. By all means, study the boshi, but many other factors are also involved. What disqualifies this sword as Nagamitsu (and that even without comparing the signature to a shoshin mei): - length - katana mei - hamon What do you mean by Katana mei? Quote
Marius Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Katana mei - signature for a sword worn edge up. A signature would always point away from the body (this side is called omote), so you have a katana mei, because your sword, if worn properly, would be worn thrust through the sash, edge up. Tachi mei - signature for a sword worn edge down, suspended from the belt. In the pic below, the samurai wears a tachi and a tanto. Signatures on both swords would be on different sides. Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 Does the length disqualify this as a Katana or Kadachi? Or are those lengths just guidelines? Sorry for asking such elementary questions. Not that it matters but it was found in Gunto Army mounts. Quote
Marius Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Mounts do not matter. Length and shape (we call it sugata) tell you a lot about when the sword was made. In Nagamitsu's time, there were no shinogi zukuri (blade with shiogi, or ridge) wakizashi or short swords. Swords in shinogi zukuri were exclusively tachi, or kodachi (basically smaller swords which had a proportionally smaller tachi shape). Your sword has a cutting edge of 51 cm and a short nakago (tachi had long nakago). It looks like a one-handed uchigatana, a sword used in the Muromachi period, and a forerunner to the katana. The term wakizashi is actually a much later one, BTW. Quote
Jean Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Rob, Your boshi is round and follows the edge of the kissaki. Sansaku boshi is used to name a boshi which is almost straight from the yokote to the point where it turns back (sorry for my English) but the following picture will show you what I mean: http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2013/13703-2.jpg Very useful to reshape a broken kissaki. This example shows a sansaku boshi and the way it has been used to avoid a fatal flaw while reshaping a broken kissaki (reason why the Hi are ending this way) Quote
Grey Doffin Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Hi Chris, Yes, of course there could be a gimei of Osafune Nagamitsu signed katana mei (there can be at least 1 of anything) but in this case I think the other explanation for the mei is more likely. But you could be right; you're more experienced at this than I am. Grey Quote
Jean Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Cannot be a kodachi Rob. Always aiming at educational purpose, what is, in your opinion, a kodachi? Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 Cannot be a kodachi Rob. Always aiming at educational purpose, what is, in your opinion, a kodachi? Shorter then a Katana, but not the size of a Wakizashi. And I found the sugata more consistant with a long sword then any Wakizashi I have had/seen. So I assumed it fell into the catagory of the kodachi. Quote
CSM101 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Okay, here is a kodachi by Nagamitsu. Signature, boshi, hada and hamon. Just for better understanding. Uwe G. Quote
Jean Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Rob, It is mainly a tachi in reduction, around 60 cm. Which means fumbari and a type of nakago which totally excludes the one shown by your sword which is typically Muromachi. Quote
Tokaido Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 Okay, here is a kodachi by Nagamitsu. Signature, boshi, hada and hamon. Just for better understanding. Uwe G. YES! and this is the shape of the mentioned Nagamitsu Kodachi... nagasa 54.3 cm, sori 1.9 cm koshi sori Greetings Andreas Quote
Jean Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 This blade looks machi okuri, it would have been a bit longer. Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 What caused this? To me it looks as though the last time it was polished it had to be taken down so far that it almost lost the hamachi? Quote
Jean Posted May 13, 2014 Report Posted May 13, 2014 I was talking about the Nagamitsu Kodachi, Rob Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 I do now see the difference between a Kadochi and a Uchigatana. I did find a similar Uchigatana by a Koto Nagamitsu. http://www.onihonto.com/Koto__Nagamitsu__Uchigatana.html Quote
austin_militaria Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Posted May 13, 2014 I was talking about the Nagamitsu Kodachi, Rob Yes, I know. I was just wondering what happened to my blade, was this a result of taking the edge down to far? Quote
ancientnoob Posted May 14, 2014 Report Posted May 14, 2014 I do now see the difference between a Kadochi and a Uchigatana. Well now that makes two of us. Nathan M. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted May 14, 2014 Report Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Rob, I think You're asking about the strong taper of your sword's edge just above the machi. Some early tachi have this feature, called fumbari, usually described in English as standing with your legs apart. There is another meaning of fumbari but I won't go into that now. Another explanation for the taper is that polisher/s have left this portion of the edge alone so as not to erase the ha machi. I've heard this called polisher's fumbari. Given the likely age of your sword I think this 2nd explanation fits. The blade has been polished a lot but the polishers have taken it easy on the ha machi. Is that what you were asking about? Grey Quote
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