Mei help

[historian2]

Mei help on old sword and cloth tag just picked up.

 

Erich

[historian2]

other side of tang.

[historian2]

Cloth tag.

[Jean]

Have a try first with Kanji pages at the top of the page Erich. Took me exactly two minutes to decipher the mei (which has already been translated several times). Beware of this mei as it is equivalent of " Van Gogh".

[historian2]

Having a hard time figuring it out, Do you know the name?

 

Erich

[Jean]

Of course.

 

You must mearn first how mei are composed. This takes about 5 minutes and is clearly explained in kanji pages. Then you must count the kanji strokes and look for them in Kanji for mei ( kanji pages for Nohonto mei).

 

You will find the kanji there: top to bottom

 

First one : title

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/common_kanji.html

 

For the signature: look as complicated kanji, more than 10 strokes.

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/kanji_for_mei.html

 

Second kanji: look at 11 strokes

Third and last kanji: look at 18 strokes

[Gunome]

Beware of this mei as it is equivalent of " Van Gogh".

One of the top Shinshinto master !

 

First kanji read alone, two last are the name of the Smith

 

A hint on the date:

 

嘉永 Kaei (1848 -1854)

 

[Jean]

Erich,

 

For methodology read carefully this page. It will teach ypu how dates and mei are inscribed. If you don't know this, it is useless to try to translate anything.

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/common_kanji.html

 

Your mei has 3 kanji. Taking into account that a smith name has 2 kanji and that this mei has 3. What can be the first one: obviously a title ....

[historian2]

The first Kanji honorary title Minamoto?

 

Erich

[historian2]

i think sword smith Minamoto Kiyomaro ?

 

Erich

[Mark]

the signature does read that way, you are correct. That being said it does not mean Kiyomaro made the sword, it is just the name written on the tang

[John A Stuart]

源清麿 Perfect. John

[historian2]

This sword just came out of the woodwork when i took the handle off

it had not been off in many years. So maybe it could be real?

Very heavy sword.

 

Erich

[cabowen]

Extremely doubtful it is genuine. One of the most faked of all smiths.

[Pete Klein]

I Googled 'Kiyomaro mei' and found this: http://markussesko.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... -kiyomaro/

[Brian]

Erich,

A fake signature does not mean a fake sword. There are probably hundreds of thousands of decent swords with fake signatures, and these fake signatures could have been done hundreds of years ago.

 

Brian

[historian2]

Thanks for the info, to bad its a fake mei, anyone know what the cloth tag says it was tied to the sword.

 

Erich

[Jean]

BTW Erich, did you really had a bad time translating this mei :D ?

 

Now, you must read some books. Kiyomaro is with Masahide and Naotane one of the most famous smiths of Shinshinto period. That's why I compare him to van Gogh.

[historian2]

I was a little rusty its been sometime since i looked at kanji.

Still a very cool sword, If it was a real kiyomaro i would be affraid

to keep it in the house.

 

Erich