Hoping to better understand this weirdness

[JH Lee]

In an effort to better understand how to view "activity" in the steel... I must your opinions ask about the following attachments. What exactly is happening? Somehow, the fact that the yakiba/hamon coincide so precisely with the fold in the steel, and only at this particular point in the sword, makes me think that it wasn't deliberate? Was this a mistake during quenching/tempering?

 

Please correct me if I'm completely and utterly off the mark. I am here to learn. Thank you.

[JH Lee]

And I obviously don't have the right technique in photographing these swords. :/

 

Here is another. Is this just a harmless kitae-ware? Or is it something more "fatal"? How can I tell the difference?

[Loco Al]

What I see are possibly sunagashi and kinsuji lines intersecting a slanting choji. The last picture is probably just a more prominent kinsuji line rather than a flaw. I would guess that this overall effect is deliberate and not a mistake. Someone with more experience may be along shortly to better educate both of us.

 

Alan

[cabowen]

Kinsuji, inazuma, sunagashi, etc. are not "planned" per se, but rather they occur when the right steel, the right forging, and the right heat treatment all combine. A smith can do what he can to make a "fertile" field for these activities to appear, or set the stage, but exactly where, the size, the shape, etc., are out of his control for all practical purposes.

[JH Lee]

I apologize... but I think I am creating more confusion with my poor photography skills/inexperience taking pictures of nihonto. To take pictures like some people... like Darcy Brockbank, one realizes it is an art in itself.

 

Anyway, I think it is necessary for me to try to take and upload better photos. Again, I apologize for being skeptical (especially for a newbie), but my "gut" keeps telling me that these things I am seeing cannot possibly be desirable in a nihonto..... I will do my best to take better photos soon. In the meantime, thank you to those who have already replied!

[JH Lee]

OK, let's try this again.

 

Is this weird to anyone else but me? Why is... what... what am I seeing here??

 

To anyone wondering, the blade in this thread is not the tachi with horimono (my other thread). That one is really growing on me. What a gorgeous blade she is... ware and all...

[cabowen]

It looks like you are seeing the boundry between the high carbon edge steel and the softer kawagane, or jacket steel. The sunagashi and other activity takes place at the border between the two. Who made the blade?

[JH Lee]

Ah... so it's not necessarily a bad thing then? If so, that's a relief! Although... that boundary effect isn't so pronounced on the other side of the blade. Maybe it's due to the poor state of polish? Or did things not get... um... sandwiched(?) in lamination properly?

 

I'd love to tell you the maker... but the tsuka seems really stubbornly attached to the nakago. It'll take a lot more courage and skill before I can ease it off... somehow... especially without damaging the wooden core. Then, I can take a picture of the nakago. In the meantime, I just really want to get better at identifying things in nihonto visually. Thank goodness for this board! Like with anything, I think it'll take a lot of practice. It almost feels like I'm a child, learning to read for the first time. :D

[runagmc]

Like Chris says, this is the effect of queching on different edge steel and skin steel (the hamon over laps onto the lower carbon skin steel). It's not at all unusual in Nihonto. It can be a very beautiful and sought after characteristic, like in Kiyomaro school swords for instance, or it can be less well done and not a big deal really, one way or the other... but I don't think it could be classified as a flaw even when it produces an aesthetically unpleasing look...

 

BTW, your pics are not bad...

[Ken-Hawaii]

I agree with Adam, John, that your photos are pretty darn good. So are the kinsuji on your blade. I'm also curious as to who the smith was - do you know?

 

Ken

[JH Lee]

Thank you so much everyone! Once again, I find myself indebted to your greater knowledge and expertise!

 

Like a first-year psych student who self-diagnoses (incorrectly) with all of the terrible mental illnesses he is studying, I guess I got carried away with unnecessary concern after being able to correctly identify a spot or two of kitae-kizu (and I know I got that one right! alright! go me!).... and mistakenly thought that the sunagashi and kinsuji were also in the same vein of flaws! I had just never seen anything like this before. But now I realize, that this is part of the difference in learning from actually seeing blades in person (with all of your guidance) vs. only browsing pictures on the internet...

 

I need to order the proper tsuka removing tool before I could tell you the maker for certain. Well, more like take a picture and then ask you guys what the nakago says. While I am just a beginner in the study of nihonto, I am definitely not foolish enough to *force* the tsuka off (or start whacking at it with a hammer or something crazy). Maybe I am being overly cautious, but better safe than sorry I always say!

[Ken-Hawaii]

Being able to remove the tsuka is important, John, but if you post a couple of photos of the entire blade as-is, we might be able to tell you a lot just from the sugata. Of course some close-ups of the boshi won't hurt, either, &, yes, you'll eventually want to remove the tsuka, but not just for the mei. Looking at the nakago is almost as important as looking at the overall shape, & many mei are gimei.

 

Ken

[runagmc]

Hi John L., Maybe you have already done so - but there have been some good threads on tricks to removing stuck tsuka... maybe if you search the board you can find them...

 

Also, the tool used in very stuck tsuka is basically a piece of soft wood (poplar, etc.) with a groove on one edge which slide over the mune and butts against the tsuka/seppa... tap on the top of the wood with a soft mallet or another piece of wood (an iron hammer could damage blade obviously)...

 

Here... pitiful sketch took way too long, but anyway...

[Brian]

Wow Adam. That sketch is far from pitiful. Great job!

 

Brian

[Marius]

Here is a freehand sketch of this tool:

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/tools.html

 

As for the sword, I'll make a guess... Shishinto or gendai.

[JH Lee]

You are all (or as we say in the US/Midwest; "Y'all are") too awesome for words.

[runagmc]

I knew I had seen one somewhere, Mariusz... unfortunately I forgot where... Usagiya, they have it all , plus their's shows how to hold correctly... thanks for posting it...