Fujishiro oil and Uchiko

[Blundemo]

Anyone know an online vendor selling these? If not, what's a good substitute?

I don't use standard Uchiko on blades with hadori polish. I used to use window cleaner (Windex), but it doesn't really clear the surface that well and it leaves streaks like alcohol. So, I'm not sure what to use now.

[b.hennick]

Bob Benson sold all his uchiko at the Chicago show. His sells for $45. I bought mine from him years ago and it is still going strong. Best from the polisher himself. I do not know if Fujishiro San sells his.

[Jim P]

Fujishiro kits are hard to find on the net, I was asking Darcy about Fujishiro Uchiko not long ago he said that he could not think of a website that has them on line? He got his in Japan.

[John A Stuart]

Windex?? No, never. I am surprised it didn't cause permanent discolouration. Try absolute isopropyl alcohol. Uchiko, rarely if ever on blades in polish. Sasaki san gave me what I think is a quality product. If conditions warrant, a good light machine oil is sufficient or a very good quality of choji. Don't skimp on a few bucks and put thousands of dollars at risk. John

[Marius]

Words of wisdom

[Blundemo]

Windex?? No, never. I am surprised it didn't cause permanent discolouration. Try absolute isopropyl alcohol. Uchiko, rarely if ever on blades in polish. Sasaki san gave me what I think is a quality product. If conditions warrant, a good light machine oil is sufficient or a very good quality of choji. Don't skimp on a few bucks and put thousands of dollars at risk. John

 

Thankfully no permanent discoloration and I discontinued usage of the Windex when I was able to realize it's inefficiency. Good thing too because I'm preserving blades worth upwards of 10 grand. It was recommended to me by an American polisher as substitute for Uchiko. It will strip the blade bare naked of any oil, but it leaves streaks of blurriness or color that makes the blade difficult to see in lighting than with the oil.

 

Standard Uchiko from Japan is crap and should never be used on Hadori polish. Polisher Uchiko is better quality, but still, I would not use it on Hadori polish. It is good for Sashikomi polish. But very few blades are ever polished in 'true' sashikomi. The blade you think is sashikomi polish is, in all actuality, most likely a mix between hadori and sashikomi or sashikomi with a touch of acid.

 

Fujishiro Uchiko I was told is not actually real Uchiko. Because Uchiko is bad for a modern polish, Fujishiro Uchiko is supposed to be only part Uchiko and a mixture of other things that's similar to Uchiko which minimizes scratching of the blade and preserves the polish. I don't know what that mixture is supposed to be.

 

Standard choji oil from Japan is, in my opinion, also crap because it will leave a slight residue on the blade and does not evenly disperse. Machine oil is good or sewing oil. I'm not completely sure what Fujishiro oil is supposed to be comprised of, but I was told by other Japanese collectors that it is superior to everything they've used for Nihontou in particular.

[JDinMT]

I got the Fujishiro kit (uchiko & oil) from Tatsuhiko Konno a few years back when he had a website. The site doesn't come up anymore but the address was in Kirkland WA, maybe that might be a lead?

 

 

John D.

[nihonto1001]

I like a good microfiber towel for choji oil removal. I would be careful of using any solvent. It could get between the grains in the steel and start a reaction from within. Choji oil should be used, but sparingly. Too much if it will "congeal" and may cause corrosion spots. It should be wiped down to a micro thin layer.

[w.y.chan]

Whatever you do don't use uchiko on a in polish blade.

Uchiko sold by Fujishiro are not uchiko. From my observation it is possible they are made from powdered deer horn used by polisher to remove oil. They are much kinder to your sword and I thoroughly recommend especially when used to remove streaks left behind by alcohol.

Paul Martin use to sell Fujishiro oil and uchiko on his website so you might want to contact him. I sometime give them away as gift to friends

 

 

Wah

[Blundemo]

I visited Paul Martin's website and Fujishiro oil & uchiko do come up in his store section. This looks to be really dated though, as half of the links on that site lead to nowhere and his paypal isn't accepting any payments. I will try contacting him. Thanks.

[John A Stuart]

Wah, that powdered horn (tsunoko) is used in migaki when mixed with ibota, a part of the polishing process. John

[Jim P]

Branson, Some of us in oz use Camellia oil it a light oil that works well http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CAMELLIA-OIL ... 56640713a7

If you find the Fujishiro oil & uchiko kits can you let us know I think there is a few looking for them thanks

[Guido]

Camellia oil with a few drops of clove oil was - and still is - used traditionally. Clove oil (or rather the eugenol in it) has antimicrobial and antifungal properties. Mineral oil (liquid petroleum) came into use during times of high demand, probably at the beginning of the 20th century and especially WWII.

 

Camellia oil has a pale yellow color with a sweet, herbal scent. It has a shelf-life of about 18 months. It tends to harden after some time on the blade, that's why Uchiko is needed to remove it. Mineral oil is odorless and clear and can be applied in a thinner film. To entirley remove it, pure alcohol is best (which also doesn't leave any discoloration).

 

Mineral oil is sold with and without the addition of clove oil, Fujishiro oil is the latter. It's basically the same as sewing machine oil.

 

I don't know what Fujishiro Uchiko consist of, but if one uses light mineral oil, the application of Uchiko isn't neccessary anyhow.

[cabowen]

The last time I visited Fujishiro san, which was many years ago now, he was using a microfiber cloth instead of uchiko.

[Darcy]

The only times I touch uchiko are for swords that are rusty.

 

Otherwise microfiber is the way to go. No damage, no abrasion, removes the oil.

 

When I must use uchiko I use Fujishiro's.

 

I give a Fujishiro kit away now with sword purchases. I figure it is a little insurance policy for the sword. I've seen some really great works in fairly recent polish with uchiko damage. It is sad.

 

The four major issues are:

 

1. improper application results in starburst smash marks

 

2. improper removal gets uchiko into the shirasaya, and turns the inside of the shirasaya into sandpaper which grinds linear scratches into the blade

 

3. use on swords with horimono that are not full length create long streaks that extend out of the end of the horimono

 

4. someone pays a ton for the best work of a master polisher and then when he's done his absolute best, rubs the sword down constantly with an abrasive

[chi fan wong]

is micro fiber the stuff used for wiping eye glasses? how to clean the oil of of it after? just wash it with soap?

 

also, would facial tissue be really bad?

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello, to answer the question, in short, yes, glass lens cleaning cloth. However, to be more specific as it seems there are a lot of cleaning cloths that call themselves microfiber these days, Microdear is what comes highly recommended for polished nihonto. And as for washing, the detergent should be free of all the things that would leave harmful chemical residues behind on the cloth like perfumes etcetera. Here at home we use Arm & Hammer chem free laundry detergent and have never had a problem. With the one exception that these cloths become quite popular when others at home discover how well they work on delicate surfaces. While not inexpensive they hold up very well even with regular use.

 

Facial tissue, yes, it can be used, Kleenex soft, free of lotions or perfumes, etc., and do not reuse. Even here one needs to be quite attentive and vigilant in not using too much finger pressure, unlike with Microdear cloths!

 

P.S. It's not a bad idea and suggest reading reviews before choosing and using such products that make claims on your nihonto.

[Dr Fox]

I have read that facial tissues but non scented, have been used.

But this is what I use, not cheap, but neither are the blades they are used on!

[chi fan wong]

for some reason i had always thought leaving the oil on the blade can be potentially problematic. i was under the belief that if the blade with oil on it is touching the wood inside the saya for an extended period, it could cause rust.

would simply wiping the blade with a cloth or paper after its ben oiled be enough to remove the excess oil to prevent the fore mentioned event to occur?

[seattle1]

Hello:

The topic of what "oil" to use and what should be used to remove it has spun around and around for years. It would be interesting to see some sort of a controlled experiment using a control and experimental group (anybody need a MS thesis topic?), but that might be asking too much.

From experience I can only say I have used nothing but uchiko on all blades, the best uchiko I can find, coming from sources like Bob Benson, and used it very sparingly, generally on just acquired blades that have been oiled or on just polished blades for a short length of weeks.

As for "oil" watch out as it is hard to know what you are getting. For certain don't ask a pharmacist for clove oil or ruination will follow quickly as it has a relatively high proportion of water. I use the most expensive clove oil from Japan that I can find, and trust to luck. I suspect that much of it is transmission fluid with scent added. If you can find it read Choji Oil Expose by Andrew Cameron, Tanren Kai, the Iaido Newsletter. He reports on chromatogram runs of drug store clove, then a very different graph from a run of Japanese sword oil, as one would expect, then a run of new transmission fluid, and except for some "minor fractal spike" differences, the profiles of the latter two looked very similar. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make me wonder what clove oil sold for swords really is. The study was done in 1993 and the NL seems to carry 6/3 (43) as an identifier on the one page I have.

As for the wiping material I use only unscented and unenhanced with lotion Kleenex, but even that must be viewed with caution. I cannot recall where I saw it, perhaps a publication the British To-ken Kai (???), but one article did an analysis of the actual micro content of various tissues, and the amount of what seemed to be abrasive type things found in the paper was surprising to say the least. That rough paper that comes in the small sword kit boxes was off the scale bad -- if memory serves. At the very least do not apply much finger pressure with any of that stuff. I have no idea about the micro fibers.

Finally, unless you live in a climate with very high humidity or rapid changes in humidity, I wonder why one would oil a blade at all? If you must, apply with a small piece of flannel (I think that is what those little plastic boxes in the kits is supposed to store) as that tends to reduce beading effects, but unless the blade is just back from polish, what is the gain? Uchiko a couple of times a year should be enough by itself.

Arnold F.

[Ken-Hawaii]

The choji "clove oil" sold for swords, Arnold, is actually 99.5% mineral oil, with rest clove oil simply for fragrance.

 

Ken

[w.y.chan]

Hi Arnold, I be more concern about your recommendation in using uchiko on polished blades over worrying about kleenex or papers from sword cleaning kit. Uchiko are small stones and should be viewed as an abrasive. I have Bob Benson's uchiko ball and from experience it is an abrasive and must avoid using on polished blades except for out of polish swords or rust.

 

Wah

[seattle1]

Hello:

There will never be agreement on this general topic. I tried to say, and to repeat, use oil (the right kind) under very limited conditions unless in a geographic area of high humidity and/or quick humidity changes. I use the very best uchiko (Bob Benson's) and no more than once or twice a year, apply it gently and lightly, and remove in the correct way (see below), and I have never had any problem. Whether it enhances the polish or merely maintains it, I do not know, but in my opinion it does no harm.

If uchiko is used, one wipe per tissue only, the tissue used with light applied finger pressure, up the axis of the blade, not starting from the nakago, and only from a grit free surface under the habaki. When the yokote is reached adjust the angle of held tissue to the new implicit axis of the kissaki. Never reuse or reverse the stroke of the tissue under any circumstances. If the stroke is reversed and/or finger pressure is heavy, you might as well use fish hooks.

This is what I do; to each his own.

Arnold F.

[w.y.chan]

Have to say I'm not a fan of uchiko no matter how carefully applied it harms the polish. I recall using Bob's uchiko I could hear the stones running on the blade surface and did quite a bit of harm to the nugui. It is the nature of the uchiko being an abrasive. I suggest take a picture using a high resolution dSLR camera of a newly polished blade, use uchiko a couple of times and take another picture and compare before and after.

 

Wah

[seattle1]

Hello:

Well as I said in my first post further above on this topic, while the issue of cleaning blades keeps circling around, there is an opportunity to actually do some empirical data gathering and comparing on the topic, but as far as I know it has never been done and published in English, though perhaps something has been published data in Japanese. Short of that, all we have is anecdote, and I offered mine.

You say that using Bob Benson's uchiko you could "...hear the stones running on the blade surface..." I cannot say you didn't, but consider that an observation that must be very unique. Bob has written up the very long and laborious process he uses to make the uchiko, and I am sure he would find your report of real interest. I wonder if he is on the NMB?

Arnold F.

[cabowen]

I have talked about this topic at length with several polishers, including several mukansa polishers.

 

For what it is worth, I have been told to not use uchiko on a freshly polished blade and to use the microfiber to wipe the old oil off and clean, white, cotton flannel, washed, to reoil the blade as needed. I was given a microfiber cloth by Fujishiro san to use, actually, and had my doubts. After using it, I wouldn't go back.

 

Tissue paper can cause scratches as most is made from recycled paper these days and apparently once in a great while something remaining can scratch the blade. Have seen it happen.

 

Use what works for you I guess...

[w.y.chan]

I understand the process involved in making uchiko and I don't want to detract the effort involved by the togi but as I said it is an abrasive and can harm the polish. Just because it was once traditionally used and made by a togi does not mean there is something magical about uchiko and that it does no harm to a polish. I think there is plenty of experiences from collectors were polish being harmed by uchiko. I would go further than what Chris has said and advise that uchiko does more harm than good no matter how you apply it. Why it was used centuries ago I could only imagine that polish in the past weren't as good as today, there was few better option at the time and it was good for removing blood and fat from a blade.

As a collector I take the side of preservation over tradition anyday.

 

Wah

[Stephen]

Wah Wah Wah

 

Uchiko as been purported on NMB is for old cloudy blades where no activity can be seen, then powder the hell out of them. The red balls are the worst, and one can see damages from it even on a out of polish blade. Lohamans do the job, but Bobs balls are the best, bit salty errr ...lost train of thought there, ok ....back on track, hope this thread comes to a rest.

[Jean]

I really hope so Stephen, as this topic has been treated more than 10 times.