Antti Posted April 12, 2014 Report Posted April 12, 2014 Terry, Thanks for your detailed response. I bought my first tsuba over a year ago, just as a relic from the era that is not coming back. The thing with tsuba is, they are very, very addictive, so watch your back Looking forward to see your next tsuba!
Soshin Posted April 12, 2014 Report Posted April 12, 2014 Hi Terry, While the protective function is apparent from my observation of about eight years of Japanese sword martial arts is that one of the most important functions of the tsuba overlooked by most never training with a real sword is its counter balance function to the weight of a steel blade. A well balanced sword feels much lighter than it appears in hand. My Showato training sword is a good example. It feel light in hand because the thick 28" nagasha Showato blade is being counterbalanced by a very large (8.9 cm) solid iron Tempo tsuba. Take the tsuka and tsuba off and the bare blade and it feels like a steel crowbar. :lol: P.S. Now get backing to making fun of me. Gotta love the internet.
Surfson Posted April 12, 2014 Report Posted April 12, 2014 Looks to me like it once had some inlay of shakudo or another soft metal alloy, and this has fallen off. There are lots of great tsuba out there worthy of rubbing with horn and cloth and the elbow grease to do it will be paid off with a great tsuba. This one, sadly, is not one of them.
Ken-Hawaii Posted April 14, 2014 Report Posted April 14, 2014 one of the most important functions of the tsuba overlooked by most never training with a real sword is its counter balance function to the weight of a steel blade Amen, David. My wife & I train in MJER iaido using unsharpened iaito, & the sole function of our tsuba on beryllium-aluminum alloy blades is cosmetic. But our Shinto-Ryu Sensei has us train with Nihonto, & we both had to evaluate multiple combinations of tsuba & seppa before she & I found ones that let our swords be well-balanced. And on my Koto Bizen blade, at least, the tsuba that I ended up using weighs only about 22 grams more than the one that - using your words - made it feel like a steel crowbar. Quite a world of difference! Ken
Soshin Posted April 14, 2014 Report Posted April 14, 2014 Hi Ken, Nice for another Budo person to chime-in. I first trained seven years with a aluminum bladed iaito and then made the change to to a real steel blade (ie Showato in Budo mounts) this year. I pratice Yagyu Seigo Ryu Batto. I had no problems and it turned out much better. The Showato has a much better real iron tsuba (had some rust I needed to deal with but much better then the tsuba that is the topic of this post) that does a great job of balancing the steel blade. My teacher commented the new real sword is much better balanced then the iaito that I had which had a fake cast brass sukashi tsuba which made the sword very tip heavy.
Ken-Hawaii Posted April 14, 2014 Report Posted April 14, 2014 For those of you who don't train in a sword art, what David & I are primarily alluding to is that the way a katana is really made to work is influenced in huge part by its balance. And the tsuba is really the one component that can be readily changed out to achieve a good balance. I'm being mentored in Nihonto by a guy who knows 100 times as much as I do, but not being a sword-swinger, he didn't realize how much difference adding a tsuba will make to the way a sword handles. A bare blade will feel completely different than one that's correctly balanced by a tsuba. Ken
terry8441 Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Posted April 14, 2014 I too, have studied Kendo and Iaido. It is an art form, a wonderful discipline, and a fine tribute to the philosophy to the sword as an art object. As an art form, a sword that is balanced in the hand is necessary in order to more easily control. As a weapon however, a blade that feels heavier (balanced beyond the hand) carries much more cutting and killing impact and power into the target. (the human, often times somewhat armored human body) Precisely why those who practice Tameshigiri select heftier blades, no bohi, etc. Iaido is equivalent to ballet.(not practical for combat) Tameshigiri is the extreme opposite of simply cutting power.(also not practical for combat) The true balance, both literally and philosophically, lies somewhere in between.
Ed Posted April 15, 2014 Report Posted April 15, 2014 I have been trying to tell Terry this over a long course of emails. I just hope he takes the advice and stop wasting his money. In my opinion any amount of money wasted on a tsuba like this is way too much period. Saving the money and later buying a book sounds to me like a much better idea in my opinion.P.S. This has been bugging me for over a week now since Terry sent me photos of this tsuba via email. Sorry for the rant everyone No offense meant but this really breaks me up,coming from the hardest head on the NMB David, How many times have you been told the same thing and yet you argue and try to justify how a poor to mediocre late period tsuba is a great pre-edo piece. You have wasted so much time on junk you may hold the record. Reminds me of the Yagyu tsuba you argued and argued about. I along with others, told you it was not pre-edo, that it had been burned and that it was not a good tsuba, yet you insisted that it was. BTW: I noticed that you never brought it up here again after Tampa ???? Just saying before you pounce on Terry to hard for not listening, you may want to work on that very skill yourself !!
Soshin Posted April 15, 2014 Report Posted April 15, 2014 Hi Ed, Yes I have made mistakes so has everyone. Well the Yagyu tsuba (Edo Period) was traded at the Tampa show to a long time collector for three tsuba from his collection. I don't discuss deals in detail with collectors that are not on NMB while on NMB! I not discussing this anymore. P.S. How many US collectors can fix a fire damaged tsuba and have it later pass Hozon or higher at the NBTHK?
Ed Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I don't discuss deals in detail with collectors that are not on NMB while on NMB! I not discussing this anymore. Once again, you have either missed the point or chosen not to acknowledge it, which seems to be a pattern. I did not ask you to discuss specifics of any deal. Using the so called yagyu tsuba was merely an example of you doing exactly what you were admonishing Terry for. (The point of my previous post) P.S. How many US collectors can fix a fire damaged tsuba and have it later pass Hozon or higher at the NBTHK? Are you saying the "fire damaged yagyu" referred to in this post has received papers from the NBTHK ?
Soshin Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Hi Ed, No the Yagyu tsuba is being worked on and will likely be in a condition in the future for it to pass NBTHK Hozon. As it was at the Tampa show it would not pass. I did not ask you to discuss specifics of any deal. Using the so called yagyu tsuba was merely an example of you doing exactly what you were admonishing Terry for. (The point of my previous post) Ok, agreed I am not going to discuss specific of the trade. Terry purchased his tsuba because he likes old rusty tsuba. I accept that now end of discussion and yes I was a bit over the top with my comments and I apologize. I purchased the Yagyu tsuba because the design is a classic one found in the Yagyu family record and relates to some critical concepts in Yagyu school of swordsmanship. I am being tough them in my school of Batto that came from the Yagyu school of swordsmanship in Owari Province. Here is more information: http://www.koryu.com/guide/seigo.html.
terry8441 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Posted April 16, 2014 David, Is that the extent of the apology? A general comment rather than a directed one? You had no problem before directing comments at or about me. And it's you not listening to me. I don't like old rusty tsuba - I liked 'that' old rusty tsuba. My first and third are not rusty and deteriorated. I reached out you initially asking about the attributes of my first tsuba and you were very helpful. Then the condescending comments began because you don't agree with my philosophical approach to tsuba collecting in general. Your arrogance and elitist attitude are the problem I have with you. Speaking as a very new member, that's the worst experience for someone who is a newbie to experience on this forum. Luckily for me, I have no problem explaining or defending my position, as ultimately I couldn't care less what you think of me. But please consider for the next potential new, and younger members that may come here - attitudes like yours will discourage their participation and can potentially cause them not to want to learn more about these wonderful pieces. Terry
Alex A Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Hi Terry, don't take comments to heart, I have a feeling that if you keep the hobby up your take on tsuba will change over the next year or so. If you put an item on the forum its wise to expect a wide range of opinions. One or two folk who have been honest in the past i go back to for advice now, i find there no bull critique educational, but amusing at the same time.
Jean Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I think that everything has been said on the topic and messages passed, so I lock it. Please avoid, if possible, confrontation on the Board. Keep them in PM, as it has been done in the past as I am well aware of .
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