Interesting site with new tsuba - comments welcome

[b.hennick]

I came across an interesting web—site : http://tsubaryuken.com/

The site contains a lot of tsuba for sale that were made by the site’s owner. Some look older rather than modern. They are tsuba that seem to be hand- made from plates of a few types. I am loading a few images of the tsuba for you to look at. I have created a 23 page PDF file that Brian hosts at http://www.militaria.co.za/articles/Modern_Tsuba.pdf so that you can see them all. I have grouped them into a few categories. That way they can more easily be compared. They are priced from about 12,000 ¥ to 25,000 ¥. They are not cheap copies.

,,,,,

 

All comments are welcome.

Regards,

Barry Hennick

[christianmalterre]

interesting yes Barry!

 

however they do seemingly(?)look like these ones: http://www.namahagesword.com/tsuba

so again,hat actually common consense...

 

me do miss quality i have to confess!

 

no worth to considder seriously if collecting antiques/ben passionated by antiques...

 

in case but/and of course(if) the rather "modern art" is prefered,i definitely and always do recomment Ford and Kevin....mine humble personal opinion of course!

 

 

 

Christian

[b.hennick]

Hi Christian:

Some look identical to the ones on the PDF. As long as they are sold as modern tsuba I have no problem with them.

[christianmalterre]

for mine sight(right actually) this is the same hand here who did produce them?

OK...no bad stuff at all...just not the kinda me would jump on...

(Laugh )

 

Christian

[Soshin]

Hi Barry,

 

Thanks for the link to the PDF file you have been compiling. In regard to the websites listed there isn't nothing wrong with making or selling such things but sellers need to be upfront and honest that they are just selling reproductions only and not real tsuba modern or otherwise.

[John A Stuart]

That's the rub. If made traditionally are they reproductions? As we know design books were used for tsubako to reproduce tsuba of their school and are considered legitimate. Do our resident tosougushi make reproductions, utsushi or legitimate tsuba? Must they be licensed by a Japanese organisation? Tough call. John

[Soshin]

  John A Stuart said:

That's the rub. If made traditionally are they reproductions? As we know design books were used for tsubako to reproduce tsuba of their school and are considered legitimate.

 

Hi John,

 

I am of the opinion that if a tsuba is traditionally made even if it has a famous design it is not a reproduction. Here is a modern cast reproduction (nontraditional manufacturer) with nice finishing work made to deceive people. It fooled me and Grey D. about two years ago. It should be added to Barry's list.

[b.hennick]

These are not $10 knock offs. Andy Quirt has 3 knockoffs for $100. These are more than $100 each. Add a little time, a little rust and guess what you now have. Hiil Street Blues calls Be careful out there.

[raven2]

Interesting stuff. Certainly not cheap knockoffs, but I have to agree with Christian. I will stay with Ford and Kevin for modern pieces.

[Guido]

  christianmalterre said:

however they do seemingly(?)look like these ones: http://www.namahagesword.com/tsuba

That's hardly surprinsing, it's the same person ...

 

I've seen a few in hand. Honest modern made Tsuba, not cheap knock offs. Most are not original designs, but then again, most that are entered in the yearly NBTHK contest are not; it's very Japanese to make Utsushi. I wouldn't collect them, but they are perfect for Iaitô etc.

[Guido]

  raven2 said:

I will stay with Ford and Kevin for modern pieces.

There are a few others who do very fine work, Patrick Hastings and Lorenzo Amati, for instance. But yes, they, too, spent some time with "Grandmaster Ford", so it figures .

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I reommend Patrick Hastings in terms of modern tsuba. I was able to meet him twice last year at different Budo events in the eastern US and seeing him work and some of his works in person really impressed me.

[Brian]

I don't think the point here is what to call them or whether they are tsuba or not. That has been rehashed many times. I think the point here is to take note how well made they are, and the fact that if these are bought and handled a little, they can easily find their way onto the market as antiques in a year or 2, and I guarantee that they will fool many online. Notice they aren't even all the same patina or plate.

The makers are honest..it is a few buyers down the line where things can go askew. What is $150 now, can easily be $400 later, for a "good condition antique"

Barry's point is basically the old "buyer beware" and it is a good and valid one.

 

Brian

[Kevin Adams]

The gentleman who runs this site has been around for quite some time and is known in the JSA community. He also has a professional association with modern swordsmiths such as Anthony DiCristofano, as Guido pointed out a few posts ago (http://www.namahagesword.com).

 

My opinion is that he manufactures tsuba based on copied designs for a specific market, rather than making utsushi or original designs (as an artist) with the intent to "understand" the masters. The "designs" on his site have been available off-and-on for a number of years, which suggests to me that he repeats works from templates that he's made, based on demand.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, but the fact that his work doesn't seem to be signed makes it difficult for untrained eyes to identify the work for what it is. And, as Brian pointed out, what's to stop an unscrupulous individual from reselling the work as an antique?

[cabowen]

  Kevin Adams said:

what's to stop an unscrupulous individual from reselling the work as an antique?

 

The same thing that prevents unscrupulous people from reselling any new work as antique, be it shinsakuto swords or tsuba--nothing. The burden falls to the buyer to educate themselves...Caveat Emptor....It is good of Barry to bring these to our collective attention.

[b.hennick]

Chris nailed it! I think that once organized into groups as I did patterns appear. For example the ana for the tang seems to be the same size in most tsuba. There are a limited number of shapes. Once you see the same design in a tosho style and a katchushi style things become clearer. I am not knocking these tsuba. I am just trying to let people know the level out there of modern pieces that can later turn up "aged".

[seattle1]

Hello:

Thought I had posted this early today, but off into the ether it went...???

Thanks for that posting Barry. Whether reproductions or fakes, quite amazing. I believe some of those trying to be ko-tosho or ko-katchushi are by far the most deceptive if one wanted to pawn them off as older. I was shocked to find a tsuba that had once been mine, "published" over here and then back to Japan, and now it appears as a reincarnation, though looking rather dead. It is page 23, top, center.

Such material will doubtless have some economic effects as the very gentle slope of tosogu learning is now steeper. One would expect to see an increase in shinsa submissions of such and purchases conditional on shinsa confirmation.

Arnold F.

[seattle1]

Hello:

Just so there is no confusion about the wording in the above post, the tsuba mentioned as illustrated on p. 23, top center from the site Barry mentioned, is a copy of my former tsuba, not the original. It is close and cleverly done to look as old as the original. The original can be seen in the Newsletter of the JSS/US, Vol. 7, No. 5 (July-August, 1975), p.3.

Arnold F.

[b.hennick]

Thanks for the clarification. I was worried that an old tsuba slipped in among these new ones.