Tachi/Katana shapes

[kissakai]

Hi

Can any point me in the right direction for an image file of sword shapes

I had seen it before and it gave the general sword outline

I would like to get the image blown up and use it as a guide

 

 

Grev UK

[cabowen]

[estcrh]

[attachment=0]Japanese-swords-evolution-e1306428155646.jpg[/attachment]

 

 

Link to a full size version that is right side up..

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/origi ... 063b9b.jpg

[kissakai]

Thank you both

This was the image I was looking for

 

 

Grev UK

[Robert Janssen]

Sorry to rain on your parade Chris, but here's the same image almost triple the size which makes it better to read especially the eras with their time periods at the bottom.

Your image made me look for a larger size though, thanks for that image!!

http://new.uniquejapan.com/wp-content/u ... lution.jpg

 

I was also interested in an image like this, big thanks to the 2 posters!

[kissakai]

Thanks again

The bigger the image the better

One question there is a sword between the late Kamakura & Early Muromachi that is not labelled

Would this be defined as an era/period of late late Kamukura & early early Muromachi or just by date or both?

Can anyone give me the normal size for this sword as it is one of the largest so I can attach a scale?

 

 

Grev UK

[paulb]

Hi Grev

the one between Kamakura and Muromachi would be Nambockucho and yes it is really big. Cant give sizes as I am on the road but during this time you see some really massive blades being produced.

Regards

Paul

[Robert Janssen]

Hey Grev,

 

the text next to the swords is in relation to the time line below. If you look closely the unmarked sword has a "era" of it's own, but it's a short one (about 60 years). Therefore there are no early or late sword shapes for this period, this is the only shape of that period.

In this link http://www.jp-sword.com/files/basic/history.html you will find this info on that period:

 

"From the view point of Japanese sword history, the Nanbokucho period should be an individual category, although the chronology of general art history does not separate it from the Muromachi Period. To put it into brief, the tendency of long and wide sword of the kamakura period is exaggerated in this age; the extreme example of which is so-called Seoi-Tachi (Tachi carried on the back), alias No-dachi which boasts its long and broadened figure. Its opposite is Tachi and daggers whose blade are so slender and short as never existed. Such two extremes were the characteristics of the Nanbokucho Period."

[Jussi Ekholm]

Many sources list the average nagasa of Nambokucho era around 90 cm. But just note that not all tachi of this period were Odachi of great length, "regular" sized tachi were still produced as well. And also those very large Odachi which had nagasa of over 120 cm.

 

If you are looking for info about average blade lengths and shapes of various eras, I think Nagayama's Connoisseurs book has good explanation of them, and Nakahara's Facts book has also good explanations. If you want a small booklet about shape and size I would recommend Guide to Nyusatsu Kantei by Paul Martin.

[estcrh]

Try this one out, Sato's guide and the visual chart combined.

 

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/origi ... 90cab6.jpg

[Ken-Hawaii]

Good find, Eric. I've been looking for something like that as I bring my granddaughter up to speed on what she's looking at.

 

Thanks!

 

Ken

[estcrh]

Good find, Eric. I've been looking for something like that as I bring my granddaughter up to speed on what she's looking at.

 

Thanks!

 

Ken

Ken I actually just made it by the editing together the written guide and the visual guide into one chart.

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

Ken

[Brian]

Excellent Eric.

Do you mind if I use that and incorporate the pic into the FAQ above?

 

Brian

[estcrh]

Excellent Eric.

Do you mind if I use that and incorporate the pic into the FAQ above?

 

Brian

Brian if you think it will be useful go ahead.

[kissakai]

Hi Eric

A great combined reference

I was looking to get it printed and the poster size will be 1016 x 1524 (40" x 60") for £28

I should be able to get the scale as virtually actual size but would need to modify the text to just the basic points rather than the history so the ratio works

I would remove the very early period but the image gives me two options 40 x 93" (lose 33") or 26" x 90" (26" would not give me a full size sword)

I've used paint shop pro for my images but can only merge images through trial and error (pure guess work)

 

 

Grev

[estcrh]

Hi Eric

A great combined reference

I was looking to get it printed and the poster size will be 1016 x 1524 (40" x 60") for £28

I should be able to get the scale as virtually actual size but would need to modify the text to just the basic points rather than the history so the ratio works

I would remove the very early period but the image gives me two options 40 x 93" (lose 33") or 26" x 90" (26" would not give me a full size sword)

I've used paint shop pro for my images but can only merge images through trial and error (pure guess work)

 

 

Grev

I agree, it would be a great poster

[Ken-Hawaii]

Grev, I've got the full-blown Adobe Photoshop in-house, & will be happy to modify the size of Eric's JPG to whatever you need to get it printed. Just let me know.

 

What length of which blade would you consider "full-size?" If I know that, I can size the JPG appropriately so all the other blades will print based on that full-size blade. It will be a fairly large file, but any decent print shop should be able to print & laminate it.

 

Ken

[Robert Janssen]

Hi guys,

 

great idea combining both information resources into one poster, one remark though that I have is that we might need to consider copyrights of both information sources if we use and combine this info, and share and print it into the world... I for one would not like to get smited by Dr. Kanzan Sato or his publisher :lol:

 

Am I overthinking this? :|

[b.hennick]

Personal use and educational use are fine. There would be a problem if this was sold for profit. In Canada an educator can copy up to 10% of a work for distribution to students without worry. Over 10% there are fees payable.

[Robert Janssen]

Alright, good to know, thanks! just wanted to make sure...

[kissakai]

Hi

I've asked Ken to do me an image file but I'm using the Shinshinto katana as a reference for scale

I have stated the overall length of a blade during this era should be 36" (91.5cms) but now I'm thing this may be slightly to long

I know lengths over any period will vary so it's just a best guesstimate but I would value anyones opinion on an average overall length

 

 

Grev UK

[Ken-Hawaii]

As per Grev's post, I'm ready & willing to create a "life-size" high-resolution image of all the swords in Eric's JPG that can be printed & laminated at your local print shop. I agree with him that this would be tremendously useful in teaching, & reference. But as Barry & I have discovered, these blades weren't shot to scale, so there's no way to simply blow everything up to life size.

 

So what I am suggesting is that we start completely from scratch, using photos of each of those period blades that are shot by our members from their collections, with a listing of actual dimensions. I can then make those individual blade images into a single composited actual-size image, including the text that Eric added, & I'm sure Brian will post that composite image for all members to download & get printed. That also takes care of any possible copyright problems.

 

If you are interested in participating in this project, please send me a list of which blades you have. Once I've determined that we have all periods covered, I'll contact each of who needs to shoot what, & then you can photograph your blades on a preferably matte-black background. Showing hamon, hada, boshi, & nakago details would be great, but at least be sure to show the entire sugata with lots of contrast between the blade & the background. Resolution of each blade's image should be at least 5 megapixels (no problem for today's digital cameras), & higher resolution is even better. You can e-mail the photo with a small text file description to me at jssh@catii.com. If there are periods where none of us have a blade, I can ask Bob Benson if he can contribute an image, but I'm fairly sure that we can do this in-house among us members. Oh, & I'll be careful not to list any names of who is associated with which blades.

 

Once I have all of the individual blade images, I will carefully use Photoshop to extract the blade images themselves from your individual backgrounds, & then composite them against a true-black background, along with the text which will be sized to be readable on a full-scale image. If you think it might help, I can list the specific dimensions (length, sori, hacho, etc.) for each blade, & could even superimpose a ruler for scale. I'm open to any ideas.

 

Brian, should this project be listed separately from this post? This would be the first update to that widely-shown image in many years, so if we do it, I'd like to do a top-notch job.

 

Ken

[estcrh]

I just found this, it may be a better version

 

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/origi ... a9ceec.jpg

[kissakai]

Hi Eric

This is more like the sample I was looking for as it states better the form/shape variations rather than the history

 

 

Thanks

Grev