Opinions On My Antique Sword-Kamakura Kodachi

[ancientnoob]

I have found the research of a Japanese sword is a daunting task for the English speaking layman. I studied Japanese as an elective when I was in college as an elective and took part in an student exchange program about 10 years ago. The Japanese I retained has helped me very little. I am seriously struggling with the retention of the sword's anatomy, (please bare with me.)

In a nutshell with a mixture of cash and trade (I collect ancient coins) purchased an antique Japanese sword from an aging college of mine who felt the sword needed to be appreciated for another lifetime. I have showed the sword to couple of folks with various levels of Nihonto knowledge, and everyone that has commented thought the sword was at least mildly interesting. The gentleman I got the sword from told me to show it too as many people as I can, "they will all think it's awesome," he says. the sword was surrendered to Allied forces and there is a small sticker whose ink is all but completely warn off. So I have posted this piece on several "sword message boards" with little response, with one gentleman giving me good care advice and the contact of a local expert. I took up the challenge to show the sword to as many folks as possible and get as many opinions and learn as much about the piece as possible. So here I am!

After aggressively researching the sword and having a heck of a time I was able to come up with this...

 

 

The signature reads... (Zai Mei)

備前國住助包 BIZEN KUNI JU SUKEKANE

Then a Family Name?

KUNITSUGU (Ura Mei)

Reference: Hawley SUK #163 and TK #309 I also read that this Smith is rated FUJISHIRO JOJO SAKO, I was told is good.

 

The swords dates to the Kamakura Period - Koan Era AD 1278 - 1288. Ichimonji school Fukuoka

 

I did find this link on the web...

 

http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/SUK163

 

The specs are....

 

Total length 29 1/2" approx 75cm

Overall blade length 26 3/4" approx 68cm

Cutting edge 21" approx 53.5cm

 

The local expert I showed the photos too had no doubt the sword was old in the extreme, but thought the furniture was between 150-250 years old. The gentleman I got it from thought the furniture was from the mid 1500's. The expert did tell me to forget about the furniture, "all the money was in the blade." He suspected that the Tsuba (guard) based on the photo was a cast copy. (Common) I could not immediately find a casting seam. (a diagnostic I use for determining fake cast ancient coins.)

The gentleman I bought it from and I both did not immediately realize the guard was signed, but it is. Maybe that can help determine the time, person and place of manufacture. From what I under stand the blade is fairly rare as far as Nihontos go. It is a Ko-dachi. (Small Tachi), made for only a few years during the middle to late Kamakura period.

I am entertaining any and all opinions on the sword....Thanks for any help or further information that can be provided. I urge folks to be critical, if its junk I want to know it, if its not I want to know it, but in the end I will keep it and the deal is done, and I am happy to own something like this.

 

Nathan M.

[ancientnoob]

The pictures...Thanks...

 

Nathan M.

[cabowen]

Based on the length, patination and condition of the nakago, I would think it is more Muromachi than Kamakura.

[ancientnoob]

Based on the length, patination and condition of the nakago, I would think it is more Muromachi than Kamakura.

 

 

Is that inconsistent with the mei? BIZEN KUNI JU SUKEKANE When I punched in to the link...I got Koan era? Is it possible the sword is in an exceptional state of preservation? 1185 -1333 AD Kamakura and Muromachi 1337-1543 AD. Is there overlap or scholarly disagreement on this?

 

I would assume the ura mei was made at a later date KUNITSUGU.

 

I was also under the impression that because this sword was worn blade side down and the smith's mei faces outward it places it in the time of the Tachi (kodachi) which is Kamakura. If it is Muromachi I might have to go back to the drawing board on this one.

 

Nathan M.

[cabowen]

Anything is possible but what is far more often seen is signatures of famous smiths added later....

 

Post some better photos of the blade. Ichimonji work is fairly distinctive.

[ancientnoob]

I picked up Kazan Sato's book and tried to match what I saw to the photos (not so cut and dry)

 

I came up with...

 

chu- kissaki tip

 

ko-mokume a small version of #3 metal pattern

 

not sure which boshi looks like #3 not 100% on that.

 

hamon looks like choji #4

 

 

more pics.

 

Thanks,

Nathan M.

[cabowen]

Here are some legitimate Sukekane blades.....I don't see any similarities between yours and the Kamakura era smith....

 

[John A Stuart]

Hello Nathan, did you not meet up with some folks to discuss this sword yet? Welcome here BTW. John

[ancientnoob]

@ John,

 

Hey I know you! I have, the gentleman was under the weather, and I have largely been tied up with work, and pretty much DO THIS in my free time. We planning to meet at my home here in CT so he can take a good look at this thing. We will try to aim for the week after next. I will give him another jingle and confirm. When we spoke, we thought this might be a better idea then me traveling into NYC with the specimen. He thinks its looks quite promising. Good to see you here too!

 

 

Nathan M.

[ancientnoob]

@Chris,

 

Its hard for me to say Yay or Nay, the polish is old and the details are fairly difficult to see. I welcome your opinion and take your analysis with great authority. Previously it was discussed that this sword maybe 2nd or third generation. Based on the Mei I would suspect second? Do you have any idea what it might be? The "devices" look smokey like the drawing but not nearly as pronounced, admittedly the actual blade image is small and when I save and magnify it its blurry. Thank you so much for your help, and I appreciate any other information you can provide. Like I said, its mine the deal is done and now I want to show it to everyone and learn as much as I can about it.

 

Nathan M.

 

Amazing drawings. Do you have website link or a book title? I am rapidly acquiring sources.

[Jean]

Mei does not match. I'll say Muromachi but it is a wild guess.

 

Nathan,

 

You must learn to take pictures if you want some advice on a blade.

 

At least, a clear picture of the whole tang (both sides) must be provided, without the habaki. From the butt to one inch above the hamachi/mune machi..

[cabowen]

I really can't see much that your sword has to indicate it is from the Kamakura era. The shape, signature, nakago, etc., are all quite different from what we would expect from a blade of that vintage. Yours appears to be much later, as I said, Muromachi perhaps. There are many books mentioned in the FAQ above. That would be a good place to start.

[ancientnoob]

@ Jean

 

Understood, after looking at quite a few photos, I realize that my photos suck for lack of a better term. I will begin experimenting with new photos and they will be posted within a few days. Thank you all for your help.

 

Nathan M.

[Jean]

It is always a pleasure to be of any help, Nathan. For a kodachi, it is really on the short side.

[ancientnoob]

Me again...

 

I was curious you guys got me really thinking. I went back to website...

 

http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/SUK163

 

Where I found the signature that was on the left side of the blade. I know you guys said it does not match. I agree it does not match the two character mei that is on the rubbing posted (助包) but it does match the the six character mei (備前國住助包) also listed for this smith. Am I missing something here? Workmanship and style : at the bottom, says small signature. Please educate me...

 

I thank everyone for their time, patients and expertise. I am still new!

 

 

Nathan M.

[leo]

Nathan,

did I miss a picture?

I only see a blurred nakago with "Kuni..something". Where is the 6-character-Sukekane-mei?

 

Martin

[Geraint]

Hi Martin,

 

Above the images is an attached file, click on that.

 

Al the best

[Jean]

Nathan,

 

Before going flyfishing, just a remark. When we compare the signatures (mei), we do it on tang nad not on printed character. For example when I say the mei does not match, I am comparing the example provided by Chris and yours, the Kane kanji is very different

[Marius]

Please educate me...

Nathan,

 

Rule #1: when evaluating a sword, the blade quality comes first, the signature is just a confirmation of it

Rule #2: when looking at a blade you proceed according to this rule of thumb:

- sugata (overall shape of the blade) - you get the period

- hada (the "skin" of the sword, or folding pattern, if you prefer) - you get the tradition

- hamon (the temper line) - you get the school and possibly also the smith

(rule #2 is a great simplification, but it is still useful when assessing a sword.)

Rule #3: get some books on the subject, meet knowledgeable people, try to see many (well, loads of) very good swords. You will get the hang of it, but it will take time and study.

Rule #4: don't let your hopes impair your sound judgement.

 

Now, back to your post:

 

1. Sorry, your pictures are not good enough. You haven't shown us the sugata of the sword. If it were an early/mid Kamakura ubu kodachi (which I think is highly unlikely) it would have a very distinct shape.

2. You should take some effort to identify the hamon (comparing it to text-book choji won't do the trick). I think seeing the hamon is perfectly feasible in this state of polish. Point the sword towards a source of light - the hamon will be bright, white border (halogen lamps work very good for me, but there are several schools, LOL).

 

Don't show this sword to too many people. You'll get only information noise. Show it to someone who knows a thing or two about nihonto. Any Japanese Sword Society in your vicinity?

 

Hope that helps.

[ancientnoob]

@All

 

First and foremost thank you for your time and efforts. I must admit this extremely difficult for me to ID from scratch. The sword did come with some books. The titles I own are...

 

The Book of the Sword Token Kenkyu Kai

The Samurai Sword A handbook by John M. Yumoto

The Arts of the Japanese Sword by B.W. Robinson

Japanese Art Signatures By James Self and Nobuko Hirose

 

I also have Shinto Bengi Oshigata W.M. Hawley and Kazan Sato The Japanese Sword

 

I will definitely have to get the sword out of my SDB and take some serious photos.

 

If it is not Kamakura period that is cool with me...as long it doesn't say "Made in China" I'm cool. (no offense to the Chinese folks) In a few days when I have my new photos I will also present new measurements, according to the rubric provided in one of the texts. At this point I am interested in the what, when and who. Thanks all for baring with me.

 

I try and never let my hopes cloud my judgement. Admittedly upon until a few weeks ago I didn't know what period was what, I also have no plans to sell the specimen so their is no commercial interest in what period the specimen is from. All I know is the 6 character text on the website matched the 6 character text on the side of the sword (in words) I cannot speak for style. Again thanks all.

 

Nathan M.

[Marius]

Nathan,

 

Looking forward to seeing more (and better) pics. We'll nail it down together :-)

 

Oh, BTW, seems like the nihonto bug's bitten you. And it is incurable, I am afraid

[ancientnoob]

Drum roll....

 

Here are some new photos....have at it folks. I hope these work, if not let me know. Thanks all for your help.

 

Nathan M.

[ancientnoob]

I don't know if this accounts for anything but I figured I would post this. Please don't shank me I am new.

 

Nathan M.

[zentsuji2]

Hi Nathan,

I am not posting this to give advice on the blade,it is your sword now, these guys are masters on the nihonto,Chris, Jean, John,Mariusk all who post.

I bought a sword like yourself,eager to own a Japanese sword,it looks a nice sword and you will learn from it, balance, shape, hamon,activities, hada,even if it isn't quite what you thought.

Let them pin it down,accept their judgement as they are always right, they have years of handling swords,visiting Japan,papered swords, they read kanji and see slight differences that practice, time,and mistakes they themselves have made,has honed their skills, just reading previous posts on a blade identification or kanji request, requires knowledge,to keep up with.

You have a decent sword,a good starter library, and live in the US, and now you have people to ask,that won't steer you far wrong before a future purchase.

Welcome to the nmb, read your books visit shows,ask advice and you will learn.

The above mentioned and many i have not are people willing to share their knowledge, who have made mistakes and will help you not too,your in good hands.

Just a heads up from a learner that has been guided,and to welcome you to the best nihonto source on the Web.

Good luck with your blade,and welcome to you.

Best regards. Ian Bellis

[Jean]

Thanks Ian, but I am far from being a master in Nihonto, I am just interested in the subject. Finding something on a nihonto is like sleuthing, I dig, it's my Commissaire Maigret side

 

Here I am going to ask Nathan to do the same.

 

Nathan, what difference do you see in the examples you have posted and your sword, it is something I have immediately seen

 

 

There is a sori in the nakago of the examples posted (koshi sori) but not in yours

 

 

Kodachi are tachi in reduction. Same sugata.

[ancientnoob]

Jean,

Admittedly I had to use the spoiler, I saw no difference in example #2 and my specimen. You for sure know better than I. I am still I clover to when, where and who. I suppose I have no choice but have the experts look at it in hand. It's very fustrating to look at two swords that appear exactly the same and be told they are different. Then to google more examples and believe they are same and am told they are noticeably different. I fail to understand, don't get me wrong, I believe you. For someone who is an analytical chemist and makes a living telling apart minute differences it's a double kick in the chops. I certainly appreciate you guys time and effort.

Nathan

[nagamaki - Franco]

Nathan, please be aware that from almost the time the first swords were made copies of previous shapes from earlier periods soon followed, and this trend continued throughout. So, then the question becomes like that old commercial "is it live or is it Memorex?" And this is what nihonto students spend too much time attempting to learn in hopes of discovering an old, old, hidden treasure hiding beneath an out of polish sword. In truth few ever do when compared to how many thought they had.

[ancientnoob]

Nathan, please be aware that from almost the time the first swords were made copies of previous shapes from earlier periods soon followed, and this trend continued throughout. So, then the question becomes like that old commercial "is it live or is it Memorex?" And this is what nihonto students spend too much time attempting to learn in hopes of discovering an old, old, hidden treasure hiding beneath an out of polish sword. In truth few ever do when compared to how many thought they had.

 

Well said!

What really gets me about antique Japanese swords is that it may look like a dog, sound like a dog, smell like a dog, then it must be a dog, but come to find out its not. Its not even a cat, its a monkey! Sooo much to learn, here.

 

Nathan Miller

[cabowen]

Characteristics as described and pictured in books can often be very subtle in practice. It takes a long study with good swords in hand, with expert guidance, to educate one's eye to recognize and differentiate many of the finer traits. As you progress many of these things will start to stand out and will be much more easily recognizable. The wall you are staring at is the foot of the learning curve...

[ancientnoob]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a place (studio?) to have new "clothes" made for this sword. Preferably from high quality modern materials? I would like to redress the piece so it may sit functional (more so) in my home. Any thoughts?

 

 

Nathan M.