1868 gun translation

[TH44]

Hi Guys

 

my other interest is old guns, can someone give me a translation on this Kanji on an 1868 wall gun?

 

 

 

 

Many thanks

 

TH

[cabowen]

looks like:

 

Meiji 21

 

Maruko Tsunemori saku

 

68 X(drawing a blank on the last kanji)

[Surfson]

Looks like Tsunemori saku. First two are a province. Next line may be bragging about his age - 58?

[Surfson]

Chris beat me to it. Chris, is that last kanji sai, as in age?

[cabowen]

not the one I am familiar with...

[k morita]

Hi,

 

"Maruko" is a family name.

[george trotter]

To me, it looks like a Pattern 1853 Enfield barrel, or something similar.

Maybe a trade pattern that found its way to Japan in the early Meiji era (or perhaps a copy of one?).

Any chance of an overall view of the barrel (and stock too) and any "european" marks that may be on the metalwork?

Regards,

[TH44]

Many thanks to all for your help, the owner certainly has more than he hoped for

 

Gearge - It probably is a Pattern 53 (or earlier?) with Tower lock cut down furniture when the 52" barrel fitted?

 

 

 

P53 sight

 

Thread is here http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/ ... ybN517OSL0

Many thanks again

 

Tony

[george trotter]

Yes, a straight European arm. I see no proofmarks, but it is a Tower type 3 band rifle-musket with cut down wood.

Strange and I would say rare to see a Japanese inscription on it as "made by". I have owned yataghan type sword bayonets for these European arms used in Meiji and the bayonets and scabbards had similar Japanese numbers cut on them...so, maybe it started life as an early Meiji rifle and was later 'sportrtised".

Interesting,

Regards,

[Dr Fox]

To me, it looks like a Pattern 1853 Enfield barrel, or something similar.

Maybe a trade pattern that found its way to Japan in the early Meiji era (or perhaps a copy of one?).

Any chance of an overall view of the barrel (and stock too) and any "european" marks that may be on the metalwork?

Regards,

 

Nice one George, you had it down bro!

[george trotter]

Hi Tony and Denis,

Yes, it is a pretty standard Enfield type rifle. Tony, maybe your friend's rifle is from a shipment of European arms brought into Japan in the 1860-1870 period.

If you check Watts & White bayonet book I think it mentions these arms as being purchased from UK and probably France and maybe Germany to arm the new national army. W&W has a pic of a Chassepot 1866 bayonet marked (in kanji) 2232 on blade and I had a 1860 Pat. Enfield yataghan bayonet marked 2279 on the scabbard leather. This rifle would probably take a socket bayonet, unless it had a bayonet lug on the front band (now removed). I'm sorry but I no longer have my detailed research notes as I traded off the bayonet/notes years ago.

Without a doubt, this rifle (if it is one of this shipment) was used in the turbulent 1860s and possibly also in the Satsuma Rebellion to put down the rebels...or maybe was used by the rebels, who probably also brought in European arms.

A nice find and I think probably historically important....your friend needs to do some research IMHO.

Regards,

[Dr Fox]

Interesting George.

 

I could imagine sourcing arms, from different countries at this time, would inevitably give problems in ammunition supply, this due to sizes and caliber differences.

 

Did the new army at some time standardise their long arms? Or did this situation exist for quite some time?

[watsonmil]

Dear All,

Please excuse me for interjecting into this thread.

 

For some time after the Meiji Restoration, Japan continued to use imported weapons. The newly created Imperial Japanese Army used firearms intensively against rebellious forces during the Satsuma rebellion in 1877. After the Satsuma rebellion, Japan relied extensively on the French Chassepot.

 

Japan finally developed its own model, the Murata rifle, derived from the French Fusil Gras model 1874. This was Japan's first locally made service rifle, and was used from 1880 to 1898. An industrial base such as the Koishikawa arsenal had to be established to produce such new weapons.

 

Later, Japan developed the very successful bolt action Arisaka series rifles, which was the Japanese service rifle until the end of World War II.

 

... Ron Watson

[Dr Fox]

Thanks Ron. 1880 is the date that is the answer.