Swords on a plane.

[Alex A]

Im aware Ken as flown to and from Japan with iaito swords, i can only presume these are not worth say $10,000 and up and are described as sporting equipment in the paperwork.

 

Purely speculation, but im hazarding a guess at some pit falls. Lets say you go to democratic country, the Chicago show and buy a sword from Joe the dealer at $10,000, he gives you the documentation in Japanese, plus a signed piece of paper saying its an antique. Your misses, to add a bit of humour is accompanying you on this trip of a lifetime (no ways shes missing this one). As always these kind of trips get of to a rocky start when you ask her why she needed to bring 15 pair of shoes for a weeks vacation.

 

We arrive at Chicago airport, go the the check in desk. i tell an inexperienced girl on the desk i have a nihonto sword in my suitcase, she says "i beg your pardon", i say, "an antique Samurai SWORD", she says "you cant take that on the plane". After a lot of time holding up a large que quibbling, she calls for a customs officer.

 

By this time your misses is not happy. Your led off to a room to sort things out. The main man who deals with this kind of thing is out, he arrives an hour later. He as a look over the papers, then says he needs to speak to the guy you bought it from. He calls Joe, but he is out partying with his sale money. It can go two ways, he can let you take the sword on board or not.

 

If not then you have obviously missed your flight, if he does, by then you may have missed your flight anyway. You get the next available flight via Amsterdam (at extra cost), an added worry of baggage going missing, but the grief your misses is giving you makes that worry seem insignificant. Your wishing you just got it posted.

 

There are other pit falls, but time is short.

 

If you think none of this is possible, your deluded.

[Adrian]

Before writing such (entertaining, I agree :D ) stories it's always a good idea to look into the legal/regulation part.

 

This isn't exactly hard to find : http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information ... ed-items#4

 

As you can see, all swords (defined as "cutting or thrusting weapons, including fencing foils") are OK when checked.

 

End of story.

[Alex A]

Adrian, i was speculating about hassles that one may incur.

[Adrian]

Alex, as I pointed out, your speculation had no base, since the TSA regulations are very clear and allow swords to be checked in. It was entertaining tho. :D

[Alex A]

Adrian, if you read my post you will note i have not stated it is illegal to take swords on a plane. I stated dealing with "inexperienced" airport staff can lead to hassles, dealing with arsey customs officers can lead to more hassles. Horses for coarses. If you believe that is the best way to get a sword home, then fine, its just not the way i see it.

[Adrian]

If you want to start splitting straws :lol: , I have to say there are quite a few big errors in your story/speculation:

 

1. Why would you have to tell the ckeck-in girl that you have a sword in your luggage? Since you're boarding at Chicago and the TSA rules clearly state that it's OK to check in swords and don't require that the swords be declared at check-in?

 

2. Even if you specifically told the girl that you have a sword and she freaked out (being the first day at work or something :lol: ), why would the custom officer lead you to a room instead of telling the girl "It's OK, TSA allows these to be checked in"?

 

Worst thing that could happen is that you'll hold the check-in line a few minutes, until the customs officer comes and sorts out the matter. It's that simple. You only need to do your homework, know what is allowed and what is not. Maybe bring with you prints of the relevant regulations, if you want to be really paranoid.

 

I'm not sure if you know that in the USA you can check-in firearms and ammo, so the idea that even an inexperienced check-in girl would freak out because of a checked sword is quite farfetched.

 

http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information ... ammunition

[Alex A]

I would tell the girl because thats what i would do, a $10,000 sword, a concern. As for the customs officer, its described as an "art object", that i say i paid $10,000 for, not a set of golf clubs. If you think customs officers dont look into these things, your deluded.

 

I think its best to agree to disagree.

[Adrian]

Well, that's obvious, it's not like I'm beating you with a (checked in :lol: ) baseball bat to accept that you're wrong :D We're discussing the matter, I gave you a few arguments based on the TSA rules, that's all.

 

Of course, if someone has a pathological fear of flight, of enclosed spaces and so on and needs to take 10 pills just to be able to board a plane, probably it won't be a good idea for him to add the stress of taking a valuable item (which happens to be a sword) in his luggage. But other then that I don't see any problem.

[cabowen]

I have imported and exported Japanese swords from both Japan and the US many times using several different methods. I know from that experience that there is the law and regulations, and there is the interpretation of such by customs, postal employees, police, etc. Many times what should have been a straightforward procedure turned into a hassle due to an inexperienced person turning up at just the wrong moment. Many times these people can be educated and you can get things moving without too much time and trouble. The worst case is always someone who can't admit they are wrong and not wishing to appear incompetent, they decide to flex their one muscle and make things difficult.

 

Of course, part of the game is also knowing how to play. Knowing which words to use or not use, knowing when and how to ask for the supervisor, knowing when to be assertive and when to be apologetic, etc. is all important.

 

The best way to avoid trouble is to avoid the hassle in the first place. Mailing is almost always the best way.

[Adrian]

Of course, part of the game is also knowing how to play. Knowing which words to use or not use, knowing when and how to ask for the supervisor, knowing when to be assertive and when to be apologetic, etc. is all important.

 

That's very well said, you can instantly tell when someone has experience with this kind of things. :D

 

 

The best way to avoid trouble is to avoid the hassle in the first place. Mailing is almost always the best way.

 

Chris, just to make things clear, the premise of the debate is a foreigner attending a sword show (the example given was Chicago so we're talking about TSA rules) and purchasing there a sword, then having to come back with it in his country.

In this particular situation, if you chose to mail it yourself and something goes wrong (just one example: some idiot at the customs in your home country rejects it and sends it back) there is no valid return address (you can put there the hotel's address or something like that if the field is mandatory). Unless you put there the seller's address or have him mail it to you (and in this case the sword would be returned to him - so you need to know and trust him).

 

Of course, it's a completely different ballgame if you have residences in both countries, or even just some reliable contacts in the country where you purchase the sword.

[cabowen]

Chris, just to make things clear, the premise of the debate is a foreigner attending a sword show (the example given was Chicago so we're talking about TSA rules) and purchasing there a sword, then having to come back with it in his country.

In this particular situation, if you chose to mail it yourself and something goes wrong (just one example: some idiot at the customs in your home country rejects it and sends it back) there is no valid return address (you can put there the hotel's address or something like that if the field is mandatory). Unless you put there the seller's address or have him mail it to you (and in this case the sword would be returned to him - so you need to know and trust him).

 

Of course, it's a completely different ballgame if you have residences in both countries, or even just some reliable contacts in the country where you purchase the sword.

 

I have done such. The simple solution is to have both the address and return address the same. Has worked for me several times.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Alex, Chris is correct. Placing the address & return address as the same on the packaging is the right way to do it. And, if you're smart, you'll have a post office box for both of those addresses in case your blade gets shipped back before you get home.

 

Ken

[Loco Al]

The title of this thread reminds me of a rather forgettable 2006 blockbuster movie.

For the benefit of the French speaking board members:

 

 

Regarding the related thread (Buying a sword abroad), I feel partly responsible for getting Adrian and Alex into a bit of hot water since I did ask whether anyone had the experience of flying out of Japan with a sword. Although I did say that perhaps the question deserved to be in a separate thread, perhaps I did assist in derailing that thread.

 

Anyway, I don't think that the scenario that Alex proposed in the opening of this thread is necessarily all that far fetched. I could envision all kinds of problems (especially with inexperienced staff) if one were to declare the contents of a packaged sword when checking in for a flight. Perhaps it would be different if flying out of Japan, since they might have encountered this situation more often and would be more likely to understand the importance of an antique nihonto. Just guessing. I would think that you would want to tell them what it is, otherwise one might risk it being pulled aside when it goes though an X-ray check.

 

Alan

[Alex A]

Ive read a few posts in the past about taking swords on planes, it had me curious too. Ive caught a few of those airport documentaries now and again, surprising sometimes what hassles can occur for folk. I got held up last year whilst a customs officer went off to xray some skipping rope handles . I can imagine a story about a $10,000 sword being quite interesting to an eager young customs officer having an uneventful day.

[Adrian]

 

I have done such. The simple solution is to have both the address and return address the same. Has worked for me several times.

 

Alex, Chris is correct. Placing the address & return address as the same on the packaging is the right way to do it. And, if you're smart, you'll have a post office box for both of those addresses in case your blade gets shipped back before you get home.

 

Ken

 

Chris and Ken, what happens if the customs in the destination country decide to reject the item? Common sense says they will simply return it to the sender's address, if the return address is also in the destination country.

 

Are you saying that USPS would accept an international package where both the sender's and the destination addresses are in a foreign country? (and identical for that matter)

[Derek]

I work for one of the major airlines, usually in MSP, ORD, or DEN. I go through security and customs often enough to know many agents by name. When I travel for pleasure, I am subject to all of the same rules as everyone else, and sometimes travel with nihonto or firearms. I don't have any extraordinary tips, but I'll share a few basic ones:

 

I pack my nihonto in a hard golf case. Firearm cases draw attention. I always have a letter inside the bag with information and instructions labeled for the TSA. They can and do randomly open bags. 90% of the TSA people are good folks, but 10% give them all a bad name. Always ask for a Lead if you have any trouble. They have 2 bars, and are usually trained better and have more experience. Supervisors have 3 bars, but are usually never around when you need them. In my travels, asking questions ahead of time prevents most issues.

 

The mishandled bag rate for US airlines is about 5 in 1000 pax. This seems high, but the majority of these are due to weather miss-connects, and connection flights under 1 hour. (If you have to run and make a connection, the baggage guys sure the hell aren't going to...) So the chances of your bags getting lost are extremely slim.

 

There are thieves who work in the airline industry. In my experience, they are often looking for quick, easy opportunities. There are security cameras everywhere, and we are usually in teams. Laptops, cameras, jewelry are fast and easy. Firearms, swords, and golf clubs are long, bulky, and hard to conceal. Remember, we have to go through checkpoints after work as well, with security guards, and cameras. In some cases, we bypass TSA checkpoints, but we are always observed coming in and out of sterile areas.

 

Obviously, lock your bags, but I recommend using TSA approved ones. I know that bad guys can get ahold of them, but they have at least 7 different numbered ones. Remember, they are looking for quick and easy, not inspecting each lock, then fiddle with a key ring to find the corresponding key. If the TSA have to open your bag, they won't have to hack it off.

 

Above all, every airport has their own leadership, and enforce things differently. I know Federal Aviation Regs better than most security agents, but getting into a pissing match with them doesn't help at all. I just say thank you, I'll remember that, and go on my way. One agent didn't want to accept my airline ID to go through a checkpoint. I am absolutely allowed to use it, but I just said sorry, and gave him my passport, which I had to dig out of a bag. I sent an email later to a TSA supervisor to clarify with his team. Not a big deal. Latest rules are on TSA.gov I tell people to search there for anything special they are worried about, then print it out.

 

Derek

[Alex A]

Interesting Derek. Reading your post on security as made me think of other problems that folk may have with traveling with expensive nihonto that they have bought and walked away with at shows. That of hotel security. You buy the sword thursday eve, your flight back is monday eve. Maybe to large for the hotel safe/they wont offer insurance for the item if stored in the safe/too expensive (something along those lines). Hotels do have a reputation for items vanishing, another worry to consider.

[Ken-Hawaii]

As Derek mentioned, Alex, anything you buy should go immediately into a locked golf bag, rifle case, or whatever else you're using for secure transport. Yes, a sword might disappear, but I kinda doubt the hotel lets things like locked bags get taken too often. Of course even that is too risky for me, so I bring along a nice wire chain with a lock to secure the bag to a desk, the bed, or something else that's not movable. And then I take a photo of the bag & chain in case I need to contact the local gendarmes.

 

Ken

[Alex A]

Cheers Ken, a few more sensible tips there for folk wishing to travel with new purchases.

[watsonmil]

Dear Alex,

In response to our Private email, ... I am only too happy to add this small bit of information. Please remember that all Airlines may not offer this service but Air Canada does or at least used to. One must go to what they called Special Services and simply ask the attendant giving all pertinent details about your particular piece of baggage. I had this service supplied to me on a flight from Winnipeg to Toronto and again on the return flight. The employees were both co-operative and friendly and therefore hassle free. Upon arrival in Toronto an Air Canada employee handed me my swords at the Special Services desk and the same again on my return in Winnipeg. I found it a great stress reliever :

 

The only way I would transport a sword post 9/11 as a passenger carrying a sword is to have it HAND CARRIED onto the Aircraft Cargo on departure and off the Aircraft on arrival. This service is available and at no extra charge ( at least not when I had it done ). The employee who does the carrying is personally responsible for seeing it done.

 

... Ron Watson

[Alex A]

Thanks Ron, advice to look into if considering flying home with a new expensive purchase, would help take some worry out of the journey, for sure.

[Loco Al]

Dear Alex,

In response to our Private email, ... I am only too happy to add this small bit of information. Please remember that all Airlines may not offer this service but Air Canada does or at least used to. One must go to what they called Special Services and simply ask the attendant giving all pertinent details about your particular piece of baggage. I had this service supplied to me on a flight from Winnipeg to Toronto and again on the return flight. The employees were both co-operative and friendly and therefore hassle free. Upon arrival in Toronto an Air Canada employee handed me my swords at the Special Services desk and the same again on my return in Winnipeg. I found it a great stress reliever :

 

The only way I would transport a sword post 9/11 as a passenger carrying a sword is to have it HAND CARRIED onto the Aircraft Cargo on departure and off the Aircraft on arrival. This service is available and at no extra charge ( at least not when I had it done ). The employee who does the carrying is personally responsible for seeing it done.

 

... Ron Watson

 

I think that this is the most valuable, and reassuring, piece of information offered so far. That you might be able to ask for "Special Services", so that your package will receive special attention en-route to the aircraft. You certainly wouldn't want to chuck your sword (no matter how well packed, or locked) into the maelstrom of regular checked baggage, where who knows what will happen to it in the bowels of the airport, and trust that it will be waiting for you at the other end. Especially if it is a piece worth $10,000 or more!

 

Obviously, lock your bags, but I recommend using TSA approved ones. I know that bad guys can get ahold of them, but they have at least 7 different numbered ones. Remember, they are looking for quick and easy, not inspecting each lock, then fiddle with a key ring to find the corresponding key. If the TSA have to open your bag, they won't have to hack it off.

 

Derek

 

Regarding the locking of bags: I thought that the airlines frowned upon this, but I did some checking. According to the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority (CATSA), you are allowed to lock your bag. However, they do say: Checked baggage undergoes separate screening, and may be searched as part of the screening process. They go on to say: Screening officers are not allowed to break a lock. They will generally work with the airline to find you so you can witness the search. If unable to locate you, an airline representative may decide to break the lock to allow screening to proceed.

 

If you choose this route, then I think that you might be asking for trouble. I think that it would be far more prudent to seek out the "Special Services" option as mentioned by Ron Watson, unless it's a relatively cheap sword that is not worth the hassle.

 

Alan

[watsonmil]

Dear All,

Forgive me for re-erecting this thread, ... but this short video made our National News here in Canada tonight. Gives one thought about checking in your swords ( or any luggage ) at an airport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZYPjRPUb0

 

... Ron Watson

[Alex A]

Ridiculous , thanks for sharing Ron.