Unknown school and artist

[elliottshogun]

 

Hello everyone,

 

I have attached images of a tsuba that is very puzzleing to me. It is wonderful to hold and study but there are no hints for me to consider what school it came from.

 

Brass plate in mokko shape, large brass rim attached. Ca.1500. The mountains are in shakudo, the thirteen deer (7 on front, 6 on reverse) are done in copper, gold, silver, and shakudo. Size is 8.5cm x 7.7cm.

 

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

Elliott

[Soshin]

Hi Elliott,

 

Nice tsuba. To me it looks more like Edo Period Kinko work specific the shape of the ryohitsu-ana and use of multiple inlays of different soft metals. The design also is very busy to be early work with many dear and grass/flowers carved. I could be wrong and this is only my opinion take it or leave it.

[nagamaki - Franco]

First impression (non tsuba student) is that it has a Nara flavor to it ..... http://archive.fieldmuseum.org/research_collections/anthropology/anthro_sites/boone/sword_com/sword_com9.html

[elliottshogun]

I appreciate the reply's. Based on the date (ca.1500), I am leaning towards the brass casters of the Momoyama period. The Nara school came along 150 years later and this piece would be something the Nara school might have used as a model for their work.

 

Keep the comments coming..............

 

Elliott

[docliss]

Dear Elliott, where do you get your ‘ca 1500’ from? To me, your tsuba is very reminiscent of Fujiwara Kunishige ( H 036549.0), or Fujiwara Kunimichi (H 03613.0) work. Both of these artists were working ca 1700-1800.

 

John L.

[christianmalterre]

This is a nice Tsuba Elliott

 

It was sold via Lempertz in 6./7.December 2013

see Lempertz auction 1024 Lot 700

 

i had it in hands during presight and agree with the description given by the auction house...19th century

John is right of course.

hope you did not pay too much for it finally(?)as it was a group of 4 Tsuba total here in this Lot....

(by the way the only Lot of Tsuba which sold....)

me did bid on it-it but went higher finally....

 

Christian

[Soshin]

Dear Elliott, where do you get your ‘ca 1500’ from?

 

Hi John L.,

 

From looking at Elliott's posts he assuming it is from the 16th century. Not sure why. Still it is a nice tsuba just not that old.

[elliottshogun]

Sorry to have been away........in response to your comments:

 

This tsuba (along with the other three) were purchased by Robert Haynes. This particular one is being studied by Robert and was put forth to obtain thoughts on what school and/or maker.

The date of 1500 was determined by the overall appearance of this piece, the 'crud' factor of the hitsu-ana's and nakago-ana, and from years of handling (and studying) 1000's of tsuba. Determining the age of a tsuba is the first thing one does. This leads to then determining the artist. Determining the artist is the BIG question.

 

I have been struggling with this and am leaning towards metal artists of the Muromachi/Momoyama periods. Those tachi fittings made for Court Nobility are of consideration, but who or what school is the question.

 

Robert made a comment to me stating that this is the finest soft metal tsuba he has ever seen.

 

Keep the comments coming.............

 

Elliott

[Soshin]

Sorry to have been away........in response to your comments:

 

This tsuba (along with the other three) were purchased by Robert Haynes. This particular one is being studied by Robert and was put forth to obtain thoughts on what school and/or maker.

The date of 1500 was determined by the overall appearance of this piece, the 'crud' factor of the hitsu-ana's and nakago-ana, and from years of handling (and studying) 1000's of tsuba. Determining the age of a tsuba is the first thing one does. This leads to then determining the artist. Determining the artist is the BIG question.

 

Hi Elliott,

 

I have the utmost respect for your teacher Mr. Haynes. I have all of his books with the exception of his auction catalogs. At some point I should purchase a copy of them as well. I agree that determining approximate age is an important first step in appraisal of tosogu. Assuming that the tsuba in question is Ko-Kinko (i.e. pre Edo Period) as you and your teacher thinks then determining the school is hard but might be done by a comparison of techniques used to produce the design along with depending on the situation and the design itself. Next determining the specific maker that belongs to that school is next to impossible on a piece that is mumei. I have recently acquired via trade the following fine Ko-Kinko tsuba to my collection. Can you tell the maker? I personally can't be sure of the school so a general category such as "Ko-Kinko" is fine for me and my website. The design looks like something favored by the Ko-Mino school but the lack of depth of the carving and the fact that the nanako is done in a vertical (top to bottom) manor and not in a circular manor that is very characteristic of the Ko-Mino school indicates that it was likely not made by that specific school.

 

P.S. The complete write up about my Ko-Kinko tsuba can be found here on my website: http://www.tsubaotaku.com/#!gallery4/c1jbk. It is the second tsuba from the top.

[Toryu2020]

Elliott -

You know I am not a fittings guy but this is how I would appraoch it. Look at the shape. Forget the base metal and the lovely decorations and focus solely on that particular shape - especially how the rim comes to those lovely points breaking up the four quadrants.

 

How many quatrefoil (quadrate?) tsuba can you find? Can we find this particular expression of the form anywhere else? With all due respect to Bob - I would think that in the Muromachi the Kinko were only just beginning to experiment with the shapes and materials traditionally used. How early are the examples that we can see with this particular shape with this particular treatment of the rim?

 

Next I would look at the theme and the expression of the theme - forgetting schools for now - what is the earliest example of this theme? Do they all feature this many deer? How is the mountain expressed? Could there be examples of similar images from other arts like sumi painting?

 

I think if you can place the shape in the larger context of tsuba development and the the theme in the context of popular art, you will have dialed in on the period. May in fact be that early I do not know. Of course once youve dialed in your date you can then look at who was working in brass. (stating the obvious here)

 

I have to wonder if this isnt a conundrum Bob has set for you to solve. Nice problem to have,

-t

[Ford Hallam]

I must agree with the various suggestions others have made with regard to working out where to place this tsuba in terms of age and school.

 

I also have some questions/comments on some of the assumptions made by Elliot.

 

I am leaning towards the brass casters of the Momoyama period.

Who are these 'brass casters' and do we have any examples of their work to compare with your example? And what exactly do you mean by 'brass casters', is their any evidence that tsuba were cast from brass at any pre-modern time?

 

The date of 1500 was determined by the overall appearance of this piece, the 'crud' factor of the hitsu-ana's and nakago-ana, and from years of handling (and studying) 1000's of tsuba. Determining the age of a tsuba is the first thing one does. This leads to then determining the artist. Determining the artist is the BIG question.

 

I'm very weary of this sort of approach with regard to determining age. It's not very reliable and it's terribly subjective. The condition of any piece of metalwork is entirely dependant of the conditions it's been subjected to. A year in a wet ditch will "age" a tsuba far more than 10 years in a dry and warm home. The same applies to people :D As for "years of handling (and studying) 1000's of tsuba" , this isn't as convincing as it sounds. Who established, and on what basis, the criteria used to evaluate all these tsuba? The reality is that there is no objective set of details that we can look to. The whole project of tsuba scholarship is built on very uncertain foundations with far too much guesswork being handed down as gospel.

 

I have been struggling with this and am leaning towards metal artists of the Muromachi/Momoyama periods. Those tachi fittings made for Court Nobility are of consideration, but who or what school is the question.

Ok, you've made a proposition. Now, to test it's likelihood, we need to compare these "tachi fittings made for Court Nobility" with your tsuba. At this point pictures would be helpful.

 

Robert made a comment to me stating that this is the finest soft metal tsuba he has ever seen.

And while this may be a great review of your tsuba I fear it rather undermines Mr Haynes judgement, in my opinion. This is not a particularly remarkable tsuba by any stretch of the imagination. I wonder in what respect he makes this judgement.

 

To my eyes the carving of the deer is rudimentary and the engraving of the grasses and leaves on the ground is without character and is crude. The basic shape of the guard is very pleasing and is very well defined though, but it's lost any patina it may have originally had or acquired over time.

 

One detail I'd examine more closely if given the chance would be the gold deer. Are they solid gold, mercury gilded or are they uttori?

[Marius]

May I come up with an utterly unsubstantiated theory?

 

Could this be a late Muromachi tsuba which has been altered later? Or a revival piece which has been decorated in line with the prevalent taste?

 

The weakness of my "theory" is that, besides the shape (and this is no proof), there is no evidence of age. As Ford has noted, there is hardly any patina... And I agree with Ford (how could I not?) that the decorations betray rather poor workmanship.

 

If I were to comment on the aesthetics of this tsuba - it is hard to pin it down, but older tsuba often have decorations which are naive, are done in a seemingly crude manner, but which convey a feeling of great antiquity and simple beauty.

OK, I know that such descriptions are pretty useless. I just wanted to describe the feeling that I get when looking at some old soft metal tsuba. I wish I could produce some hard evidence.

[Ford Hallam]

Cheers Mariusz :D

 

For a comparison here's a similar sort of tsuba from the ever handy and reliable, if inaccurately titled " SUKASHI TSUBA - Swordguards with openwork design from Kofun to Edo Period (Sano Museum, 1999)"

 

Ko-Shoami. Momoyama Period 16C.

[runagmc]

From this pic, it looks like the gold spots are inlayed...

[Marius]

From this pic, it looks like the gold spots are inlayed...

 

and this leads to what conclusion?

[Soshin]

Cheers Mariusz :D

 

For a comparison here's a similar sort of tsuba from the ever handy and reliable, if inaccurately titled " SUKASHI TSUBA - Swordguards with openwork design from Kofun to Edo Period (Sano Museum, 1999)"

 

Ko-Shoami. Momoyama Period 16C.

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I think Ford H. tsuba is a good Ko-Kinko example of the Shoami school that shows the typical shape of the ryo hitsu-ana of pre Edo Period tsuba in my opinion. Notice the shape of the kozuka hitsu-ana which is similar to the one added to my tsuba at a later date. It very different then the tsuba that is the topic of this discussion. Therefore I stand by my original statement the the tsuba in question is Edo Period Kinko tsuba until Elliott provide more evidence of the 16th century dating.

[runagmc]

From this pic, it looks like the gold spots are inlayed...

 

and this leads to what conclusion?

 

Nothing... someone asked if the gold was applied by guilding or inlay...

[Ford Hallam]

What I was interested in was the deer that are all gold, by knowing what method was used to achieved the gold finish we may have another piece of the puzzle to point in one direction or another. Uttori, a foil covering that tucked under the inlay, would be of interest. The spots on the other non-gold deer are clearly inlaid dots, yes.

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I think I understand Ford's reasoning. If I remember correctly the Uttori method is a older inlay method that was later replaced by other inlay methods in the Edo Period. About eight years ago I was trying to date a pair of menuki that had inlays and I remember this point.

[Ford Hallam]

Give that man a cigar :D

 

quite correct David, however, while in general, uttori was gradually replaced we can still occasionally find slightly more sophisticated variations in the Edo period. It takes a very clear understanding of the process to assess where in the timeline the technique ought accurately be placed.

[elliottshogun]

Gentlemen,

 

First I must apologize for confusing the 1500 date with Momoyama period. I meant the Muromachi period.

 

All of your comments have been noted and thru comparison to other tsuba's (including Tachi and nobility tsuba) made by metal casters, we are keeping the ca.1500 time frame.

 

We have discovered that this particular piece was a combined effort between the metal casters and an early unknown Goto artist(s). The metal casters did the plate and rim, the unknown Goto artist did the inlay, carving and design motif. Which Goto school or artist is unknown. But comparison of Goto kozuka and kogai pieces with like designs of animals, landscapes, etc. seem to confirm the detail given to this tsuba.

 

This design motif is rare, and I would ask if anyone has seen any Japanese metal object or artwork with this subject? There may also, be a legend being told here but I have yet to discover it.

 

Elliott

[Pete Klein]

I for one would very much appreciate pictures of the 'Goto' pieces used for the comparison you noted. This piece is obviously early but Momoyama at best, at least to my experience. I wish nothing more than to be, 'enlightened'...

[John A Stuart]

The technique used on this tsuba remind me of higher level Mito work, like Motoyoshi. Mito school used various soft metal plate and pinned their carvings onto it in multiple types of soft metals. Not all are the typical iron plate types we see the most. This would make it Edo period and likely mid to late. I see no obvious Goto influence here. John

[Ford Hallam]

In what way is the subject of the design rare? Deer and some ground foliage seems pretty commonplace to me....

 

As for the rest, like Pete I await some evidence to support these assertions. I'd also like to know who these brass casters were. And the claimed Goto collaboration will require some solid evidence too, I feel.

[Pete Klein]

Ford, what I am curious about (and perhaps you know the answer to) is when patinated copper iroe began to be utilized on fittings? I recall a connection to Goto Kojo (fourth Shirobei master) but I cannot find the reference to this thus far. What I find interesting about this tsuba is the use of said iroe which could very well place it's earliest time of commission, which would place it about to within Momoyama Jidai or later. There is a 'somewhat' similar example out of the Alan Harvey collection sale, Sotheby's London L05860, 14 july 2005, #740, pg. 16. It does not utilize onlay work but the sentoku and overall shape is reminiscent. It is categorized as early Kaga work. In any case, your input would be most welcome and, of course appreciated.

[Ford Hallam]

Pete

 

it's hard to put an exact date on specific things like patinated copper unless we have dated examples to look to and I don't think it's a matter of when they could do it but rather when it became fashionable, and at that point we expect to find a number of similar examples.

 

These are some images from the ever handy Sano Museum catalogue as well as one from the, now defunct, Tosogu Museum. I post these to give some sort of visual reference of what the metalwork of the 15th Cent, and earlier, looked like.

 

Also, I was a bit thrown by Elliot's reference to brass casters until it hit me he may be referring to early crude bronze cast tachi tsuba. However as these, very typical examples show there is no similarity to his example at all. I'm fairly confident in my assessment that these types of guard are indeed cast. The technology appears to be identical with that used by mirror casters and the frequent presence of cracks around the nakago ana point to metal shrinkage, a common enough fault when casting thin sections with openings.

 

Dated 1394 (Oei Gannen)

 

Ko-Kinko 15 cent. According to the Tosogu Museum assessment.

 

14th~15th cent. Cast Tachi tsuba.

 

And for reference this is a pretty classic 15th century Japanese cast Bronze mirror. The similarity in terms of detail achievable and general appearance is obvious. This example is from the Brooklyn Museumbut there are a great number of similar examples that can be found on-line in various museum collections.

 

 

The use of brass on tsuba really only becomes commonplace with the, so-called, Onin Guards. These are essentially Tosho tsuba with brass decoration added, perhaps at a later date. The Onin designation places them around the latter part of the 15th cent. This type of dot and wire inlay of brass then develops into Heian-Jo, type larger brass inlay, through the Muromachi and into the Momoyama Period. The development of technique and refinement of design through this evolution is visually very clear.

 

Oops, apologies, I just noticed my photo editing program added my copyright notice to the images I uploaded by default. I don't own the copyright on those images, naturally, they are from the Sano and Tosogu Museums as I noted earlier.

[Ford Hallam]

Worth pointing out the similarity in form of the Momoyama period Ko-Shoami tsuba I posted earlier and the 15 cent. Tachi guards.

 

[Henry Wilson]

Very interesting posts Ford. I especially love the pictures you are using to illustrate points.

 

As a side note, does anyone know the origins of the inome / heart shape sukashi? What is it's significance? It seems to only appear in the kind of tachi style tsuba listed above. Any thoughts would be appreciated if it is not too much of a thread hijack.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Marius]

Lovely pictures Ford, thank you for posting.

 

Could you please give us some details concerning both catalogues? I'd surely like to search for both an buy them. Perhaps Grey could help me get them.

[Pete Klein]

These are the books Ford is referring to:

 

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... nno-museum

 

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... meihin-ten