An odd selection of museum Tsuba

[kissakai]

Hi

Just an odd selection this time. I've added the museum description and sizes and any comments would welcome

 

1

Size 80 x 79 x 4.1mm - Ca.1650 Cira - School Hizen

 

 

 

 

2

Size 59 x 49 x 3.7mm - 17C - 19C - School Shōami

 

 

 

3

Size 72 x 66 x 7.0mm - Ca.18C - School Hirata

 

 

 

4

Size 60 x 53 x 5.0mm - Date Not known - School unknown

 

 

 

 

Grev UK

[RobertM]

Love the last one

 

Rob M

[kaigunair]

#4 might be considered a generic "shippo" (possibly 3 also). Probably dock work/export tsuba, with mid grade shippo work. I'm thinking late edo, even possibly meiji.

 

Theme of #2 (skull) I believe is called nozarashi. sort of an "impermanence of life" idea.

[Soshin]

Hi Grev UK,

 

The last tsuba reminds me of late Hirata school of Edo that can't be attributed to someone specific. I can only imagine that koshirae that must have been used with this tsuba likely for some very wealthy merchant at the end of the Tokugawa era.

[christianmalterre]

Hirata?

well?-me do not see Hirata here at all!

in mine humble opinion it´s a classic Somata/Somada.

please compare it with Wiest´s maki-e Tsuba article/the Wiest-Garrett Somada Mitsumasa.

 

Christian

[docliss]

I agree with Christian that Grev’s last tsuba is certainbly not Hirata work of any age. I had supposed it to be late work by Aizu artists, or produced for export at the docks at Yokohama. But Christian’s suggestion of Somada Mitsumasa intrigues me. Is he suggesting that this is, in fact, not shippō but is rather lacquer, or that S. Mitsumasa did actually produce some shippō work? If the latter, I was not aware of this.

 

John L.

[John A Stuart]

Shippo for sure. Way outside normal Hirata type work. I can't hazard as to who made them. John

[christianmalterre]

John,

regarding the surface here from this picture it´s showing those typical occuring damages(which happen such ofthen in Cloisonné)...

second is the linear crack-lines visible,plus the wirewalls securing it...

so he may have worked in both...

at least this sounds more than just possible...one could not work in shippo without knowledge of maki-e/vice versa...

he did both after what is written,too...did not only work in Tsuba of course...specialised in latter age to Bronzes...

export piece?-i don´t know,is but possible of course...

he had some schoolars,too

himself is recorded to ben born 7th year Kansei(1795)...so "export" seems possible...

 

A nice Tsuba here!

 

Christian

[Geraint]

Only one face showing for number three but Hirado? There is a kozuka in 100 Kozuka with stylistic similarities by Hirado Kunishige.

[John A Stuart]

What number Geraint? I see #67 unsigned typical Hirata work of Hoo. John

[Geraint]

Hi John.

 

Tsuba number three is assigned to Hirata but the body of the tsuba reminds me of the work of Hirado Kunishige, the carving of the shachi and the Namaban feel. I have no idea if there is a connection. viz. number 68 in the Thuault book.

[Peter Bleed]

This is an interesting assemblage that seems to include a couple of pieces that were to the tastes of first generation collectors.

My favorite (and I'd say the best of this group) is number 1. I think (IMHO!) that this is a first phase "namban" tsuba. Calling it Hizen might be all right, but I suspect that it started out on the Continent (ie in China) and that it was modified to serve on a Nippon-to. Note the big, blocky nakago-ana and the uncomfortably place ryo-hitsu. This one could be pre-Edo IMHO.

Peter

[Pete Klein]

Totally agreed Peter -- marvelous example.

[John A Stuart]

Ah. yes, #68 sure does remind one of tsuba#3. Good eye Geraint. John

[docliss]

I share Peter’s enthusiasm for tsuba #1, although it is rather sadly abraded. But I would certainly classify it as Hizen work, with a design based upon the mythological and grotesque creatures that featured on Portuguese tooled and worked leather. This was introduced into Japan in the seventeenth century.

 

This tsuba features extensive nunome-zōgan – a characteristic of Hizen work – and I presume, by its exclusive use of silver nunome, that it predates the multicoloured example illustrated on pp.46-7 of Grahan Gemmel's Tosogu: Treasures of the Samurai. This he dates as mid-eighteenth century.

 

John L.

[Pete Klein]

Burning the midnight oil, John? LOL! My observation was in line with yours as to the abrasions but whatever. So much an interesting piece, what?

[Soshin]

I agree with Christian that Grev’s last tsuba is certainbly not Hirata work of any age. I had supposed it to be late work by Aizu artists, or produced for export at the docks at Yokohama. But Christian’s suggestion of Somada Mitsumasa intrigues me. Is he suggesting that this is, in fact, not shippō but is rather lacquer, or that S. Mitsumasa did actually produce some shippō work? If the latter, I was not aware of this.

 

John L.

 

Hi John L. ,

 

Isn't all this tacky Cloisonné tosogu made by Hirata School of Edo? Something that tacky would never be in my collection. The first tsuba I would agree with Pete K. is the most intresting one as well as the third tsuba.

[Brian]

Love the way you guys make us go back to stuff we had glossed over as insignificant and really look at them closer, and learn new things. Giving the first one a lot more attention now.

 

Brian

[kissakai]

New

 

There are the only other two tsuba in this style and I’ve only shown one face as they are both identical

Recalled No1 so they can be viewed all together

 

1)

Size 80 x 79 x 4.1mm - Ca.1650 Cira - School Hizen

 

 

 

 

 

 

7)

Size 80 x 53 x 5mm – Ca.17C – School Hizen

 

 

 

Size 85 x 80 x 3.1mm – Ca.1620 – School Hizen

 

 

 

Number 6 was acquired in 1967 so I will ask the museum if this was a gift or purchased.

Hopefully there may be more information available

 

Grev UK

[Brian]

Thought this one might be interesting to those who like #1. I really don't know what to make of it, knowing little to nothing about these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tusba-Namban-Im ... 338bed9918

Although his dating is maybe a little.......off?

 

Brian

[Peter D]

Wow, 2014. I'm a bit late to the party!

Anyway I came across this thread through a google search. The octagonal guard is most certainly an import, it's a fairly standard type of Korean guard.

A lot of guards classified as "nanban tsuba" are in fact foreign imports, others are Japanese-made work inspired by them. Even NHBTK doesn't seem to realize this. Officially they don't appraise foreign made work, yet I own a Sinhalese and a Chinese made sword guard with papers by their hand.

 

Here's an example of the style on the Korean saber it belongs to. These are incredibly rare so I can forgive many a collector for not having been exposed to these before:

http://www.czernys.com/a-71/?o=67446

 

Peter

[kissakai]

2014 it certainly is an old thread!

Interesting and informative details but too late to make any major changes to the Museum book