2014 Tampa Show Highlight: Kinko Tsuba...

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I wanted to share a Kinko (shakudo) tsuba which I consider the highlight of my 2014 Tampa Show. The measurements are 6.5 cm x 6.0 cm and at the rim the thickness is 3.0 mm. I did the photos this morning and just finished the photo editing. Late this year or next year I am going to do a Hozon/Tokubetsu Hozon submission of this tsuba to the NBTHK as it is currently unpapered. I was going to do some photos of the very nice custom fitted wooden display box made of exotic hardwood but my camera battery died and is currently charging. I will post it tomorrow. Enjoy and feel free to comment and ask questions. :D

[raven2]

Very nice Dave,

 

I also got a kinko tsuba (suaka) as well as a very nice kogai (shakudo) (which I will post later as soon as I get pictures).

[Soshin]

Hi Fred D.,

 

Please share some photos when you have some time. Sorry we didn't have time to meet during the show. I just updated my post on my tsuba. I know it is shakudo other then that I know nothing as I mostly collect old iron tosogu. Searching the internet I found my tsuba where it was onced listed for sale: http://nihonto.us/KO%20MINO%20-%20MUROMACHI%20JIDAI.htm. I cannot comment on how accurate the information is on the website but it does have more photos of my tsuba for reference.

[raven2]

I will try to get some up later today. I think mine is probably late Edo/ Meiji. I also usually just get iron tsuba but I really liked this one and so I deviated from my usual buying patterns. Andy usually does a pretty good job of IDing his pieces and I wouldn't have too many doubts but you never know until you research it.

[Soshin]

Hi Fred D.,

 

Thank you for posting photos of your acquisition. I have asked two members of NMB their opinion at the Tampa show and received different answers one agreeing with Andy Q. Ko-Mino call and the other going less specific to Ko-Kinko done in a Mino style. They both agreed that the Hozon/Tokubetsu Hozon submission would be a good idea. One indication of age on my tsuba is the fact that the kozuka-hitsu ana is not original. From what I learned from the excellent lecture by the NBTHK on Ko-Kinko that the cross sectional shape of my tsuba kozuka-hitsu ana is a early one.

 

P.S. Does anyone know the name of the other flower pictured on the tsuba besides the chrysanthemum. Thank you in advance.

[Justin]

Looks like chysanthemums and plum blossom.

 

Although this is a nice tsuba, I would be disappointed if this was the best at the show.

[Soshin]

Looks like chysanthemums and plum blossom.

 

Although this is a nice tsuba, I would be disappointed if this was the best at the show.

 

Hi Justin,

 

Thanks for the information. I like the complement and insult all in one sentence. Gotta love NMB! I did see this fine tsuba at the show: http://nihonto.us/KATCHUSHI%20TSUBA%20HOLLOW%20RIM.htm. It was one of the most impressive Ko-Katchushi tsuba I have ever seen in hand! The only problem is the price as it is way outside of my pay grade as a United States federal government scientist.

 

P.S. Everyone, here are some art photos I did of my tsuba in its custom display box this afternoon. Enjoy.

 

[ROKUJURO]

David,

 

careful reading can prevent misunderstandings!

 

You will find that Justin most likely did not intend an insult: You wrote quite correctly:....I wanted to share a Kinko (shakudo) tsuba which I consider the highlight of my 2014 Tampa Show.....

 

He did not read the 'my' and so interpreted your statement as generally 'best of show' which it probably wasn't.

 

I hope you will find this information helpful....

[Soshin]

Hi Jean C.,

 

You are correct. Sorry it is more than likely just a misunderstanding no problem. Now lets back to the tsuba and topic in question.

[Justin]

Sorry, I thought it was judged best in show by the shinsa team. It is a nice tsuba David. A good pick up.

[Soshin]

Hi Justin,

 

No problem it was not the best in the show. :lol: I am just a small fish in a aquarium of big fish at the Tampa show. But I do like the tsuba and will do a dual Hozon/ Tokubetsu Hozon submission to the NBTHK shinsa in the near future (next two years). I aquired this tsuba after the NTHK-NPO shinsa Saturday night of the show.

[Brian]

Well I like it, think you did very well on it, and one you can really enjoy. School/style fairly obvious...I guess it is only the age that a shinsa panel can assist with?

Nice one though..can see why you bought it.

 

Brian

[John A Stuart]

There are definitive autumn flowers connected with Mino-bori, 秋草 akikusa is the term usually seen connected with them. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A7%8B% ... E%E9%81%BF) and the seven autumn flowers http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A7%8B% ... 3.E8.8D.89 John

[Soshin]

School/style fairly obvious...I guess it is only the age that a shinsa panel can assist with?

 

Hi Brian R.,,

 

I am happy you enjoy it. I had two members of NMB give their opinions on the tsuba origin after doing a in person examination of it at the Tampa show. One opinion was Ko-Mino and the other opinion was Ko-Kinko in the style of the Mino school.

 

Hi John S.,

 

Thanks for the additional information. I will examine and translate the two web pages you link to that has helpful information in Japanese.

 

P.S. I notice that the really fine nanako was done in a top to bottom orientation. A similar orientation is used in Japanese when traditionally written. Is this particular to a specific school and/or time period of production?

[John A Stuart]

The most pertinent as to Mino-bori is Chrysanthemum, Chinese Bellflower, Pink, Ominaeshi (Golden Lace). John

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Tokubetsu Hozon

 

Don't dream too much.

[Soshin]

Hi Jacques D.,

 

I have seen photos of better examples but they had NBTHK Jyuo or higher papers. I can dream as much as I want... well at least until I get the shinsa results. :lol:

[Jean]

David,

 

Does it mean you have submitted it to TH shinsa?

[raiden]

one is Tokubetsu Hozon, one is Juyo from our NBTHK KoKinko seminar.

[raiden]

sometimes too large of a pic takes away from the fittings desired effect. I find that they need to be viewed both close up as well as in a normal sized setting to enjoy properly.

[John A Stuart]

The left tsuba is intriguing. Is it a kagamishi tsuba? It holds the most interest for me. John

[Soshin]

David,

 

Does it mean you have submitted it to TH shinsa?

 

 

Hi Jean,

 

No, I am waiting to get back another tsuba that is currently in Japan that went through shinsa in December before submitting this one. I not a fan of shipping this type of tsuba so I will wait until mid September for the Baltimore show to give my tsuba to the broker I use.

 

Hi Mike Y.,

 

Thanks for the nice reference pieces. I do remember the left ko-kinko tsuba from the NBTHK lecture in Tampa. I will post higher resolution photos of my tsuba on my website sometime in the future once I take off what was sold at the show.

 

P.S I was doing some book searching of my collections of KTK exhibition catalogs tonight. In the 2006 edition of exhibition catalog on page 12 there are three ko-kinko tsuba all part of the John D, Berta collection that are very similar to my tsuba from the style of nanako to the design, overall size, shape, and thickness of plate. I am not going to post photos for obvious legal reasons.

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I updated my website and the high resolution photos of my Ko-Kinko tsuba are now on my website: http://www.tsubaotaku.com/#!Ko-Kinko-Tsuba-/zoom/mainPage/image1xsq. The technology limitations of the forum prevent me from displaying high resolutions images and since I paid for a website and domain I should just use it. I hope everyone enjoys it. Feel free to contact me by topic reply, PM, or email via my website.

[Curran]

John:

 

The left tsuba is [i believe] shakudo.

Mike Y.'s photos don't do it justice. Also, the scale is off. It is a fair bit larger than the one on the right.

First time I held it, I knew it was Juyo right away. Very rare to find one of that size, in that condition, and the level of workmanship.

I picked it up and thought "if this isn't Juyo in the NBTHK's eyes, I don't know what is...."

The photo doesn't do it justice.

 

That said, I prefer the one on the right.

Several people know I am very partial to tree and nature themes. I tend to avoid the mythological and humans.

The tree tsuba is rather "over the top" to the point of severely guady for muromachi work. Yet closer inspection shows the workmanship to be good and consistent attention to detail from top to bottom and front to back. Condition is such that it won't make Juyo.... but it is one of those 'High Tokubetsu Hozon' examples someone like me really enjoys having. I am hunting something else now, but if the owner emailed me and made me a fair offer- I think I'd be writing the check and worry about the bigger game later.

 

In short {sorry Mike}, but the photos suck.

They are both excellent pieces, though there was a kogai and a simple red amber colored ko-kinko that would have been my first grabs off the display in Tampa.

The display was very extensive and had a few NY Met Museum display level pieces. [i don't know how else to express this. People throw around the term 'museum' too casually, and I won't dare to say what would/wouldn't be worthy of the museum in Ueno Park worthy]

 

I think David's piece is Momoyama Mino. I've seen it and thought it his best buy of the several he did in Tampa.

I see the point concerning the nanako of why someone else said ko-kinko.

That is some sharp sighted detail, so I need to go back to the books and revisit my opinion.

[Pete Klein]

First off, I had the honor of 'facilitating' the purchase of the Juyo example for a friend and it's the one on the left. My method of facilitation was to keep kicking him in the rear until he purchased it...

 

As for the topic tsuba my feelings expressed at Tampa for it being Ko Kinko and not Mino include the nanako but also the shape of the mimi and the decoration. There is a tendency to place any fitting of floral motif into the 'Mino' school, which is incorrect. Mino works tend to 'fill the frame', in this case the jita. David's example has too much open nanako. The Mino nanako tends toward circular, sometimes horizontal. I've not seen vertical to date. The mimi is broad and rounded which I've not seen utilized on Mino works. All of this makes me believe it to be 'Ko Kinko', whatever that is supposed to mean. Here is an example of Ko Mino work from a display/lecture by Gordon Robson several years ago at San Francisco Token Kai:

Please note the depth of carving in this example. Some early pieces do not use nanako but rather a worked, rough background.

Having said all of this please understand that this is my 'opinion'. It is totally possible it could be papered to Mino. If so, I will be more informed.

 

PS: TBH is a waste of money unless you are going for Juyo which the tsuba under discussion will not, IMHO.

[Jean]

Just a question Pete:

 

A few years ago, if I remember well (I am not sure) if a sword presented to Juyo shinsa with hozon papers failed, it could get TH. Was it the same with tsuba?

 

What is fascinating is your opinion that getting TH papers is useless unless it is to go for Juyo.

[Pete Klein]

Jean -- I don't remember ever hearing that about Juyo submissions but it could have been. I don't know.

 

As for TBH I guess I'm at that stage where I feel if I don't know the difference in quality I'd better get out of the field. In my opinion the price difference just isn't warranted unless it's a piece one wishes to go for Juyo and of course now TBH is required for that. I used to think differently but now look at it this way. I really wish they'd go to a system such as the NTHK organizations have but I doubt that will happen. In line with the tsuba in question I really don't see the need to paper it at all actually as for me it's Ko Kinko but I can understand where David wishes to know if it might be Mino or Ko Mino which is of course a valid reason.

 

PS: if I were looking at swords the TBH would come in handy as I don't know from swords so my opinion above is only for fittings... LOL!

[Jean]

I have exactly the same opinion Pete, now Juyo is a gamble for blades because it depends not only of the blade quality per se but also of the other blades presented. It is a competition as explained by Guido.

[Soshin]

In line with the tsuba in question I really don't see the need to paper it at all actually as for me it's Ko Kinko but I can understand where David wishes to know if it might be Mino or Ko Mino which is of course a valid reason.

 

Hi Pete K.,

 

Yes that is my reasoning for submitting it to shinsa. I think I would learn something being a collector of mostly iron tsuba if it comes back as Mino, Ko-Mino, Kinko, Ko-Kinko, or even Goto. The dual submission of H/TH is just a little bit more expensive anyway.

 

P.S. The orientation of nanako on my tsuba is something I noticed when I compared it to the similar Ko-Kinko tsuba in 2006 KTK catalogue.

[Pete Klein]

The fees for fittings papers (for members) are: Hozon @ 16800 Y and TBHozon @ 42000 Y so if it went TBH it would cost you 58800 Y plus associated agent and postage fees. Usually comes in at around $700. That's a lot more than Hozon only in my book.