KAGINAWA

[Brian Ayres]

Ron,

 

As a learning blacksmith and knifemaker, I have spent some time forging, drawing tapers and forge welding.

Looking at your example I was wondering, could you examine the sides not pictured for another forge weld seam?

 

In my experience hot cutting, and drawing out two pieces would take much more work than simply forge welding 4 pieces together after they have been tapered.

 

Thanks for sharing this as it looks like a fun project to forge down the road. It is also an interesting piece of Japanese history. :D

[watsonmil]

Dear Brian A.,

Well, ... I've taken an eye loop to the kaginawa, and I see only the one seam. In fact the best way of viewing the artifact for the purposes you desire is to look directly on the bottom with the four hooks level with the eyes. By doing this one can clearly discern the two separate slabs of iron BUT not the four as you had thought I might. One can clearly see that each half has been split to form two prongs each. I do not have a proper camera to display this and I'm not sure if my Grandson whom will be out this weekend can do better. That detail only becomes clear when using the eye loop. I am fairly confident of what I am seeing however unless the join is so perfect in comparison to the other half. No matter in a way, as I am quite taken by the degree of accuracy obtained with the forge, a hammer, and a chisel. I am also taken by the fact that the forging is so good as to defy almost anybody except our Lee from spotting a slight seam ( I had made the error of stating to Brian earlier that it was a single piece of iron ). These old blacksmiths were very talented. Just look at the perfection of the loop, ... it is in perfect alignment and curvature.

 

I guess given that a Japanese swordsmith is really just a very talented blacksmith I should not be overly surprised. If I may be of further assistance you need only ask.

 

... Ron Watson

[Brian Ayres]

Fantastic sir! Thank you. Curiosty satisfied.

 

I love seeing the work of blacksmiths, swordsmiths and seeing the steps they took to create their work.

[runagmc]

A kozuka with kaginawa depiction...

[ROKUJURO]

Thank you, Adam,

 

for showing this wonderful KOZUKA! I like the subject a lot and admire how the limited space was used by the artist!

 

Concerning the subject of the Japanese smiths, I would like to mention that they are (or were) probably not more talented than those of other cultures. In my observation it has to do with the fact that Japanese SHOKUNIN in general have a different approach to their respectice crafts compared with the West (in modern times). Japanese craftmen used to see their work finished when it was very well done all over (even inside!). We in the West have developped an attitude to see a work finished when it just served the purpose and enough time was invested.

 

A Japanese smith has to learn his craft to a perfection that may exceed the technical requirements of the item he is forging. This may come down in many cases to a kind of aesthetics or beauty even in a simple workpiece, and this may be obvious even to a non-specialist.

 

In this respect, the Japanese crafts as taught over centuries, are still paradigms for everyone striving for true mastership, at least in my eyes.

[Adrian]

  Kam said:

There is a fair bit of literature that makes mention of the use of kakenawa in castle sieges etc. I believe the historian Stephen Turnbull makes mention of them in his publications with historical references.

 

 

Kam, I also mentioned a known historical example (as in known from several contemporary sources) which confirms the use of grappling hooks in siege warfare. What I find to be highly improbable is the alleged use of grappling hooks and rope for scaling the walls during an assault.

 

  Kam said:

A few pics I could quickly locate, the first 2 are prints showing the "kake" portion attached to poles as opposed to rope, emphasizing the multipurpose ability.

 

Very interesting pics, thanks for sharing. I'd say that they obviously present either rope/wood ladders or grappling hooks used for hand to hand combat. The grappling hooks attached to poles were probably used for dragging down defenders from walls once the attackers climbed high enough using ladders of some sort.

 

 

  Lee Bray said:

How about sending 100 samurai at the front wall with ladders while slipping 10 men round the back with grapples?

 

That's one of the oldest tricks in siege warfare (well, not using 100 but many more ) but it's just a variation of something that I already mentioned as making perfect sense: using such hooks for scaling the walls during a surprise attack, probably at night and so on. What I find improbable and illogical is the use of grappling hooks and ropes for climbing walls during a frontal assault (so to speak). Hence the discussion about following suicidal orders and so on.

 

  Lee Bray said:

Beeston castle, near my familys home, is situated on a large hill, one side of which is vertical rock face. The area above the rockface was not as well defended as the rest of the castle. In the English civil war, eight men scaled that rockface in the middle of the night and took the entire castle. Would you have given that order or led the assault?

War is war, not logic.

 

Actually scaling such cliffs in order to take by surprise the defenders of a very strong position is a well known tactic since Alexander the Great took the mighty fortification known as the Sogdian Rock. Since Alexander, this feat is usually done by highly rewarded volunteers, usually people from the attacking army who originate from mountain areas.

 

Siege warfare is one of the chapters of military history that always interested me and I've done, in time, quite some reading on the subject. This is why I find this theory about climbing walls with hook and rope under enemy fire a bit too far-fetched.

There are also some very interesting psychological aspects of a long siege and one of them is that morale collapses very fast if you send even a small group of your own soldiers to die an obviously useless death.

 

 

Of course, I stand corrected by contemporary sources, if any are known.

[BIG]

Hi

 

Find in " Bondage Projekt " that the Kaginawa was First Used by the Kumogakure Ryo

 

founded 1532 by Heinaizaemon Ineaga Iaga, famous member of the IGA Ninjas.

 

In the Makimono Shonoki from 1682 there is an introduction of the Kaginawa.

 

May be Not a regular weapon, so there is no example documented in the Siege warfare.

 

Best Regards

[Kam]

Hi

 

Adrian, historically kakenawa were not used en mass but more as a specialty tool for small scale infiltration. I think the other thing to consider is the way they were used as grappling hooks ie not great when a flurry of arrow are raining down on you but perfect as a small unit stealthily infiltrating a compound esp when needing to travel light.

The other thing to consider is not to just view the grappling hook application as just vertical but horizontal as well such as traversing from building to building or ship to ship etc.

 

Peter, way before the kumogakure ryu were using kakenawa the kukishin ryu had them within their arsenal and before this they were also used by Japanese pirates and Chinese bandits. The Fuma ryu whom were experts at guerrilla warfare also used them successfully.

[Davis]

Dear Ron,

 

You have started a very interesting debate. I have tried to visualize how Samurai would have used your kaginawa. To climb a rope, the rope would have to have been strong enough to support a persons weight, it would also have to have a circumference that could be comftably gripped. Attaching such a rope to your kaginawa ( weight 1lb apprx.) would not allow it to be thrown very far vertically, the weight of the rope would act as a downward drag.

 

Your kaginawa could however have been used with a combination of different sized ropes utilizing knots such as a double sheetbend and running bowline. The application of which would be too detailed to go into here.

 

Many years ago in the course of my then employment I was trained in the use of hook and scaling ladders. The idea was that they could be used to gain access to buildings where conventional ladders could not be deployed - due to restricted space - rear of hotels, tenements etc. The hook ladder was of lightweight construction, 13' 6" long and had a 2' serrated hook. The person using it would also wear a "hookbelt" which attached to it were a large snaphook, axe and bobbing line. The boobing line was a 100' long and weighed about 2lb. An improvised grappling hook could be made using the line tied to the axe. It wasn't particularly effective as the bobbing line could never be climbed. A normal sized line (rope) had to be attached to it and pulled through.

 

Many years ago I was shown a wartime documentary of British commandos training to scale cliffs. They were using grappling hooks fired from mortar like devices.. Schermuly rockets could no doubt be adapted to the same principle.

 

Ron, your description of my Meiji period bronze is pretty accurate. However, the picture doesn't show the opening at the top which has been used to place incense in the past. A Japanese specialist at a London museum also thought that it was a koro. I believe Christies sold a pair of them similiar to mine at a sale in London during 2012, describing them as koro. You were also right to pick up on the patination. A previous owner has almost ruined it in the past by cleaning it with abrasive metal polish. but time is again allowing it to mellow.

 

A very interesting subject, thanks again Ron.

 

Regards

MIck

[Adrian]

  Kam said:

Hi

 

Adrian, historically kakenawa were not used en mass but more as a specialty tool for small scale infiltration. I think the other thing to consider is the way they were used as grappling hooks ie not great when a flurry of arrow are raining down on you but perfect as a small unit stealthily infiltrating a compound esp when needing to travel light.

 

 

Hi Kam,

 

That's pretty much what I proposed too. Others seem to disagre. But honestly I don't think there's any argument in favor of using grappling hooks and rope for climbing walls during the assault of a well manned fortification. Davis also explained very nicely why this wouldn't be feasible from a climber's point of view.

 

And the lack of historical evidence seems to confirm this idea.

 

 

  Kam said:

The other thing to consider is not to just view the grappling hook application as just vertical but horizontal as well such as traversing from building to building or ship to ship etc.

 

 

There's no debate about the use of grappling hook+rope in naval warfare, everyone agrees with it Basically the only disagreement was about using hook+rope for climbing walls during assaults, under enemy fire.

[watsonmil]

Dear God,

Adrian will you let up already, ... you are adding nothing to the discussion but for being " agumentative ", ... it is of little importance in the discussion whether or not we use a grapple to climb a wall in a frontal assault or by daytime stealth or by night time. You have already acknowledged the use of grapples in siege warfare. Quote : " Kam, I also mentioned a known historical example (as in known from several contemporary sources) which confirms the use of grappling hooks in siege warfare. What I find to be highly improbable is the alleged use of grappling hooks and rope for scaling the walls during an assault. " .... There can we agree on that as if it really pertains to the thread !

 

I'm sure, in fact I know that they were popular during Naval engagements.

 

Now then, Kam brought up the size of the rope as being a problem ?? I would answer that by stating that no where did we discuss the height of the wall to be scaled, ... of course throwing a grapple over a 30 foot wall takes less momentum and strength and could be accomplished with a much heavier rope than trying to get a grapple over a 50 or 60 foot wall with ANY size of rope.

 

There now, ... lets all agree with Adrian that climbing a wall in front of a multitude of defenders would be suicidal. There you go Adrian now for goodness sake can it already .. please, pretty please .

 

... Ron Watson

[Adrian]

Seriously Ron, why exactly are you so bothered by this discussion? I presented a different opinion then yours and lined up some arguments, it's just that, not the end of the world.

 

P.S.

  watsonmil said:

You have already acknowledged the use of grapples in siege warfare. Quote : " Kam, I also mentioned a known historical example (as in known from several contemporary sources) which confirms the use of grappling hooks in siege warfare. What I find to be highly improbable is the alleged use of grappling hooks and rope for scaling the walls during an assault. " .... There can we agree on that as if it really pertains to the thread !

 

What I mentioned was this example:

 

  Adrian said:

Such hooks were used during the last stages of the siege of Constantinople (in 1453) .When the outer wall (the fortifications had two walls but only the outer one could be manned by the defenders) was destroyed by the Turkish guns, the defenders managed to raise a wooden palisade, topped with barrels filled with earth. Therefore, during the several assaults which ended with the fall of the city, the Turks used grappling hooks to tear apart the palisade and drag down the barrels.

This use of the grappling hooks is well documented by quite a few contemporary sources.

 

I guess that these Kaginawa would have been used under similar circumstances, against wooden defensive works. Or in naval warfare, of course.

 

Trying to climb the walls using a rope under enemy fire during a siege seems a bit extreme even for warriors who don't put too much value on their own lives. Maybe during surprise attacks, when using ladders would be impossible?

 

 

Which is obviously a very different use then what you proposed in a subsequent post:

 

  watsonmil said:

Dear Adrian,

Your concern for the Samurai or more probably Ashigaru climbing a wall using a grappling hook is commendable. Keep in mind that MANY grappling hooks were probably employed during a siege and if you have only one or two survivors inside a fortification they can wreck havoc.

 

 

I thought we could just calmly debate the matter... Somehow the idea of a mass assault using grappling hooks and ropes against a well manned stone castle doesn't fit in the history that I know .

[watsonmil]

Brian,

I hate to ask, ... given the interest in this thread for which I have been pleasantly surprised ... thank you to those whom have participated in and stuck to the intent of the thread, .... but I don't think any of us but for one are interested in debating siege strategy. Perhaps a different thread on strategy would be appropriate ... I don't know. Could you please LOCK the thread and put an end to this suffering.

... Ron Watson