Info request Japanese Armour

[Medina San1]

This Armour is in pretty bad shape any help would be greatly appreciated. I saw it and just had to have. Can you help me Identify it. would it be worth restoring it, or should it be a study piece?

[kaigunair]

Just some initial observations which is be correct by the more knowledgable members:

By the pattern of the stitching, looks to be that all pieces are matching (except for kabuto which is matched to the dou by the crest), which is a +.

I think this is a Date pattern Dou (maybe called 5 sided, but not sure), due to the number hinged sides making it up.

Looks like it is missing the arm and shin guards.

Kabuto is interesting....has earlier period type brim and "ears", but the style of the helmet is not the older rivited type but is a either a momo (peach) shaped or a possible a priest headgear shaped, which I think falls into the kawaii category.

 

 

I do not know if this is Edo period or even Meiji or later. Some of the chords on the rear picture look very bright, almost nylon like,but this could just be the flash. For age, details and pictures of the inside of the dou and kabuto would be more helpful.

 

I believe it is quite expensive to restore armor....

[IanB]

Dear ?,

What you have are the remnants of what was originally an interesting, if somewhat theatrical looking armour made of rawhide (nerigawa). It is, as has been said, a go-mai-do, the major plates almost certainly being made of several thickness's of rawhide, glued and sewn together before being heavily coated with lacquer. As long as the lacquer is intact such a construction is light and very effective, but as soon as it cracks, moisture invades, swells the hide flaking off more lacquer. The upper sections will also be of hide that acts as a foundation for hexagonal plates, covered with blue shobu gawa, a construction known as kikko. The hexagonal plates might be either of hide or iron. It is difficult to say from a frontal view but I am guessing the helmet is an eboshi nari, or court cap shaped - again of rawhide shaped in a wooden mould before assembling and lacquering. The same is true of the mask. X-rays of a similar hide mask in the Royal Armouries collection showed numerous holes in the leather, indicating how the hide had been hammered into the mould and nailed in place whilst drying. There is a misconception that armours like this were a cheap alternative to metal; they were in fact expensive and laborious to make, being favoured by older men because of their light weight.

As for the age of your armour, I would suggest late 18th or early 19th century. It displays several features suggesting it was probably made in the province of Kaga. Typical of their productions are the curved sections under the arms, the red and green cross-knots and the incorporation of woolen cloth (rasha) traded from the Dutch. In this case the collar seems to be made from it. From the early 17th century the principle armourers working for the Maeda family in Kanazawa, Kaga were Haruta, but they were joined by Miochin and other groups in the late 18th century turning out vast numbers of armours for sale throughout the country. We do not really know much about the makers of leather armour, but the suspicion is that the Iwai may have been involved. Three Iwai families are listed by Dr. Orikasa as moving to Kaga, the Gengoro, the Denzo and the Kumakichi. Some members of these families left Kaga to become retainers of other clans. Perhaps the identification of the kamon might give a clue.

Ian Bottomley.

[Jean]

Medina-san,

 

[Medina San1]

Medina-san,

 

My apologizes, I will sign from now on.. I thought it was automatic.... that's what I get for thinking....

Medina San

P.S Thank you all for being so helpful...

[Medina San1]

Thank you all... I do have the kegs and arms it seems to be made the same as everything else it has these hexagonal little leather buttons sewn inside the material.

I'm adding one more picture with all the parts and Box.

Again thank you

Medina San

[Brian]

I realize that your surname is Medina, but might be nice for us to call you Dan, instead of Mr Medina

But how you sign is up to you as long as we have one of those. Just makes things easier here. You can add your name in your signature in your profile, and it will sign for you.

 

Brian

[Medina San1]

Dear ?,

What you have are the remnants of what was originally an interesting, if somewhat theatrical looking armour made of rawhide (nerigawa). It is, as has been said, a go-mai-do, the major plates almost certainly being made of several thickness's of rawhide, glued and sewn together before being heavily coated with lacquer. As long as the lacquer is intact such a construction is light and very effective, but as soon as it cracks, moisture invades, swells the hide flaking off more lacquer. The upper sections will also be of hide that acts as a foundation for hexagonal plates, covered with blue shobu gawa, a construction known as kikko. The hexagonal plates might be either of hide or iron. It is difficult to say from a frontal view but I am guessing the helmet is an eboshi nari, or court cap shaped - again of rawhide shaped in a wooden mould before assembling and lacquering. The same is true of the mask. X-rays of a similar hide mask in the Royal Armouries collection showed numerous holes in the leather, indicating how the hide had been hammered into the mould and nailed in place whilst drying. There is a misconception that armours like this were a cheap alternative to metal; they were in fact expensive and laborious to make, being favoured by older men because of their light weight.

As for the age of your armour, I would suggest late 18th or early 19th century. It displays several features suggesting it was probably made in the province of Kaga. Typical of their productions are the curved sections under the arms, the red and green cross-knots and the incorporation of woolen cloth (rasha) traded from the Dutch. In this case the collar seems to be made from it. From the early 17th century the principle armourers working for the Maeda family in Kanazawa, Kaga were Haruta, but they were joined by Miochin and other groups in the late 18th century turning out vast numbers of armours for sale throughout the country. We do not really know much about the makers of leather armour, but the suspicion is that the Iwai may have been involved. Three Iwai families are listed by Dr. Orikasa as moving to Kaga, the Gengoro, the Denzo and the Kumakichi. Some members of these families left Kaga to become retainers of other clans. Perhaps the identification of the kamon might give a clue.

Ian Bottomley.

Wow thank you Ian.. I have been trying to find the kamon. no luck yet. My question is, is this a rare set of armour is it worth restoring and who would do this type of work? sorry for all the questions. I just find this so fascinating...

Dan

[IanB]

Dan, I'm afraid once a leather armour starts to go there is little you can do to restore it. It is a tragedy but that's life. Your biggest problem are the kikko areas of the dou which are horribly distorted. You might try compressing the plates between boards and applying gentle heat to relax the hide inside but be careful not to over do it. I have a leather armour that was badly stored in its box bending the shoulder straps out of position. Fortunately the lacquer is intact so I made a jig to force the straps back into position and left it for months - but to no effect. It is now on a special stand with a great big clock weight hanging inside the dou which has corrected the distortion. Perhaps in years from now it will have returned to where it should be.

Ian Bottomley