zentsuji2 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 There is a lovely kiyomara on ebay at the moment, could this be a student carved mei piece,as his work is likened to masamune in terms of quality when he got it right, i was shocked that it popped up here,the work looks good to my untrained eyes, nice o kissaki, lovely nie,horimono,the date is within range of his work period,i would like to buy it,what makes this sword worth less than the figures his swords bring,or can masters turn up on ebay and my last question would the Japanese allow it to leave,being such a valued piece of their history, i am sorry for posting if members are bidding but it's getting up there,is this a case of names don't always make the sword,as the workmanship still looks nice, where am I going wrong in judging swords does the lack of shinsa seal it's fate,the seller putting it on ebay and not going to a Tokyo shop,the fact that it's leaving Japan or can a masters sword still slip through the net, i would send it for shinsa and believe any dealer would but the fact the work looks so nice worries me as surely somebody who can forge this well wouldn't need gimei signatures, can anybody shed light on this.apologies in advance if this has been covered,and to any bidders,i would rather know if a sword has been ruined by deception, or its a poor sword and my eyes see it as nice,any input appreciated best regards to all.Ian bellis Quote
Guido Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 This one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/S137-Japanese-S ... 1e870c925e ? Quote
Marius Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 (post edited - I have thought Ian is new to the board) Ian, 1. When posting, could you please use paragraphs? And full stops? And capitalize first words? This makes reading so much easier... Or maybe you have used some new device like a smartwatch or something? In that case - sorry for the remark 2. Why do you think would someone sell a blade worth $$,$$$ or $$$,$$$ for only $,$$$? 3. I see you stick around here since 2012 - you shouldn't believe in miracles on eBay by now :lol: If you haven't already, please read this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15114 4. BTW, it is "Kiyomaro", not "Kiyomara". Quote
Jacques Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Hi, Good opportunity for eyes training (same year) :D Quote
Stephen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 If the blade was going for $$$,$$$ then it would be a shame/sham, but the price it is now, its a heck of a nice blade. Where you going to get that kind of work for that price, some swords were made for sp order, hey make me a Kiyomara...deal. buy the blade not the mei. Quote
Marius Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Stephen said: buy the blade not the mei. Random streaks of ara-nie, pretty sloppy horimono (not the worst, but not the quality that one would expect). What's there to buy? The o-kissaki? I have noticed that some people are crazy about this type of sugata (well, I am But I think, I should refrain from comments, as long as the auction is up and running... We shall see where the price goes. Quote
cabowen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Ian- a head's up: everything from this seller should be suspect as he seems to be making a market in gimei blades. This one is a typical Kimura Akamatsu Taro Kanetsugu gendai. See below. While the sugata is similar to what one thinks of in a Kiyomaro, the hada and hamon are quite different. Kanetsugu: Quote
Marius Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Chris, thanks for bringing up the potential maker of this blade :-) I wonder what you think of those ara-nie. I find them random and not particularly well controlled. Is this perhaps typical for Kimura Akamatsu Taro Kanetsugu? And what about that horimono - have they gotten so average these days? Just asking... Quote
cabowen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 I have owned a blade by this smith in the past that was actually quite nice. He has become fairly well known and there are now 5 smiths in the family. They make many of these Kiyomaro style blades. This section seems rather unattractive to me and I would agree that it appears things weren't well controlled: Quote
Stephen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 area in question looks like coverd up rust spots and or attempts to remove/ with painted hadori over...they dont Org to blades forging to me. Quote
cabowen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Just ara-nie, not rust. Look carefully in the ji above and around the hadori and you can see small black spots which are rough ji-nie.... Quote
takakage Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/2014/1410_1045syousai.htm kiyomaro utsushi too for this one. Quote
zentsuji2 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Posted February 13, 2014 Sorry about sloppy paragraphing, i am on a phone, and was in a rush,apologies. The question has been answered it looked attractive to my untrained eyes,i have been predominantly looking at ww2 swords, so have not had chance to know about this smith, and Googled the name,when I read further and saw the comparison to soshu masamune, i was shocked and foolishly posted without thought,i must confess to liking the blade,and strangely it is a sword i could bid on. I am still a relative newbie, i am still getting my head around ww2,and have little time at home, due to commitments, thanks for putting me straight,it is a complex hobby,and I am learning, thanks for all comments. Best regards Ian bellis Quote
cabowen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 It isn't a Kiyomaro, but it isn't junk either. The Kimura family makes many of these, they are also known for making their own steel. If you like their work, you might consider buying a signed example, rather than a gimei. They are prolific and their work is for sale on many sites... You are in the right place...Study all you can and take advantage of this resource. Look before you leap... Quote
zentsuji2 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Posted February 13, 2014 Thanks chris,your knowledge is enviable,to know the smith and school,i was sceptical of the deal,just put my foot in it again on here,ha,ha. Thanks for not hammering me,it did look nice on my phone,and I could bid. Take care, and regards. Ian bellis Quote
w.y.chan Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Chris got in before I did. I use to own a Akamatsu Taro Kanetsugu and was going to say this is most likely the same smith who made this sword. I also saw Kimura san's swords signed Sumitani Masamine sold by the same seller in the past. Wah Quote
Jean Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Just to add, it is Connemara and Kiyomaro :-) Quote
takakage Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/2014/1410_1045syousai.htm First picture of the kimura family may be a mistake with a name. It is kane tsugu and not kanehide morever real name of kanetsugu is kimura kanesada. Kaneshige is the father of Kanetsugu. Chris, do you agree ? Quote
zentsuji2 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Posted February 13, 2014 Thanks jean,my stupidly efficient predicted text phone started this,I will use the laptop,if I can remove my daughter from it. Regards. Ian bellis Quote
cabowen Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 takakage said: http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/2014/1410_1045syousai.htm First picture of the kimura family may be a mistake with a name. It is kane tsugu and not kanehide morever real name of kanetsugu is kimura kanesada. Kaneshige is the father of Kanetsugu. Chris, do you agree ? Here is the correct info on this family: http://www.higotsuru.com/Japanese-sword-gendaitou-akamatsu-taro Quote
takakage Posted February 13, 2014 Report Posted February 13, 2014 Nice, thanks a lot Chris. Kanetsugu makes enju utsushi too http://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_t ... 61113.html Quote
Marius Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 Apparently some people regarded this as the real McCoy... Quote
cabowen Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 drjoe said: $8100 Probably a fair price for a Kimura blade....but not for a gimei Kimura blade.... Quote
takakage Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 Chris, 8100$ = 829 000 yens with this price you can have http://www.choshuya.co.jp/sale/gj/2011/ ... nehiro.htm Quote
Blundemo Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 I've seen Kimura blades go for $6,000 - $8,000 tops, even with horimono. That is overpriced for a modern sword with fake signature. Beware ebay. Quote
Marius Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 takakage said: 8100$ = 829 000 yens with this price you can havehttp://www.choshuya.co.jp/sale/gj/2011/ ... nehiro.htm This one is actually for JPY600,000 Quote
cabowen Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 Having owned one and seen many for sale, I think it might be the case that 600,000 yen is a cheap and 800,000 is on the high side. Sometimes swords on the cheaper end are cheaper for a reason not visible in pictures. Sometimes an expensive one is expensive for reasons not visible in pictures. In any case, it's a gimei sword, with bona fide swords by the real maker available for roughly the same, or less....Someone got poked... Quote
Jean Posted February 18, 2014 Report Posted February 18, 2014 Patrick, Dotanuki utsushi and not Enju utsushi Quote
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