Kanzan Sato - Kodai Yamakichibei - Tsuba Attribution

[Robert Mormile]

Hello:

 

I was wondering if one of our Japanese members could help me with a tsuba box attribution translation. The attribution is by Kanzan Sato and the tsuba is a Kodai Yamakichibei. I could read most of it however there is some sosho that is difficult for me to read. I have placed “?” question marks where the unknown kanji are written.

 

Top of Cover:

山吉兵　後代 (Yamakichibei Kodai)

甲冑師写 (Kachushi Utsushi)

茸小透鍔 (Take Kosukashi Tsuba)

 

Inside Cover:

丸形鉄地小透 (Marugata Tetsuji Kosukashi)

銘山吉兵後代也 (Mei Yamakichibei Nari)

甲冑師写見本 (Kachushi Utsushi Mihon)

見本？？ (Mihon ??) [i provided a closeup shot of these two mystery kanji]

昭和乙卯年夏日 (Showa Usagi Doshi Natsu Hi)

寒山 (Kanzan)

 

Under Base:

小山正司 (Oyama Shoji)

括猿小透鍔 (?? Kosukashi Tsuba)

 

Has anyone heard of Mr. Shoji Oyama? (Perhaps this was from his collection.)

 

Thanks very much. Robert

[Robert Mormile]

Conundrum Highlighted

[Nobody]

括猿 reads Kurizaru. It was a stuffed toy monkey used as a good-luck charm. The motif of the sukashi is Kurizaru according to the writing on the under base. However, the top cover says that the motif is a mushroom.

[k morita]

Not “kurizaru“ ,kukurizaru. :D

[Nobody]

I misspelled its name. The correct reading is Kukurizaru as morita san says.

I just found an example of kukurizaru.

[Robert Mormile]

Mr. Morita & Mr. Moriyama:

 

Thanks very much I thought “saru” but it didn’t make sense to me. How about the two characters under “mihon”? Perhaps it means a good example or a rare example?

 

Most sincerely appreciated,

Robert

[Steve Waszak]

Hi Robert,

 

Okamoto, author of Owari To Mikawa No Tanko (Tsuba Smiths of Owari and Mikawa Provinces) would identify this tsuba specifically as made by the "yon-dai." This assumes that one accepts the traditional understanding of generations of Yamakichibei tsubako. While the "yon-dai" was likely a later smith (i.e. not Momoyama or very early Edo), it is, as far as I know, simply convention that he is seen as the fourth-generation Yamakichibei. I for one am quite doubtful about this understanding of this "school."

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Robert Mormile]

Steve:

 

Thanks for providing this additional information. Yes, seem to by many areas in this field that remain unstudied in earnest. Mr. Sato doesn’t state “yondai” but 後代 (kodai, godai) meaning later generation. Also, he actually called it an “utsushi” or faithful copy. I believe second half of the Edo Period. The evidence of manufacture in the iron as well as the patina are quite close to another early Yamakichibei tsuba that I have. I think he was comfortable adding hakogaki to this as the quality was rather good. I am not a tosogu specialist; can you tell me if yondai actually refers to the fourth generation of it if is a generic term referring to all later work? (I realize that yon means four.)

 

*I should have this tsuba in Tampa for examination.

 

Thank you. Robert

[Marius]

Robert,

 

Your tsuba reminds me strongly of the work of tge 'Sakura' Yamakichibei. And it is very nice

 

Care to show us your other Yamakichibei? Don't tell us the attribution, it should be evident from the workmasnhip...

[Steve Waszak]

Hi Robert,

 

Well, according to Okamoto, the "yon-dai" would specifically refer to an individual smith, the "fourth generation." Some may say that this fourth generation smith would be part of a "ko-dai group," in that any post-Momoyama-to-very-early-Edo Yamakichibei smith would be a "later generation" than those smiths working in the early 17th century. I think your locating of this "yon-dai" in the second half of the Edo period is likely to be accurate, specifically in the 19th century, when the revivalist spirit informed the zeitgeist of the times...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[christianmalterre]

Robert,

 

the question me do have mineself here is rather contrary...

Me do say-definitely Gimei.

 

may this Tsuba eventually? be an latter Sadahiro group or rather Futagoyama?

i have to confess that i never have seen this YKB iron in/on an Utsushi done by (maybe!) the Futagoyama-group (still(of course!) but yet possible...Marc(are you in?)

Sadahiro?.....Hmmmh....why not?

Tempo/Tenpo group.....(Mariusz?)

Yondai?-if that(?)- me would love to see an exemplaire please!

(i have to confess i did yet never have seen any Yondai!)

 

Ko-Dai shall represent "Soshin"....so real!-Not?

Where´s that mentioned Kodai boy here???

(could somebody please provide me with an certified/authentic Yondai Tsuba picture?)

(still keen to learn-such,i am obviously keen in getting insights about!)

 

Big LOL! from mine side here...! (regarding that attribution done by this Gaki!)

 

"Rien ne vas plus"?

 

Christian

[Marius]

Steve has written an interesting paper on the iconsistence of the yamakichibei generations as described by Okamoto. Very refreshing and interesting, especially in the light of existent Yamakichibei (style) tsuba which show excellent workmanship but which do not conform with accepted signatures.

 

And, BTW, those 'kodai' Yamakichibei were artists working in the style of the original Yamakichibei line. Somewhat like Osaka Gassan and the ancient Dewa Gassan. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

[christianmalterre]

Mariusz

that´s but definitely known

 

yet this piece does not congrue in mine eyes-nor it is authentic.

Point!

Edit:

Sorry!-i forgot mine obligatory Smilie here!...

here we are...still friends...(LOL!) :D

(this but does not change about the authenticity of course)

 

Christian

[Robert Mormile]

Christian:

 

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. The upper right hand corner of the cover reads:

山吉兵　後代

 

I understand it might be difficult to envision as it is written in sosho. You raise an interesting question. If the name Yamakichibei was added to denote the tradition it was made under is it gimei or simply an utsushi. The iron looks like, in some respects like my papered Yamakichibei however I have never seen one in maru-gata. That is for sure.

 

Cheers,

Robert

[Marius]

I did not say it is. Neither is 'Sakura' YKB. A far cry from the freewheeling work of the oshodai, shodai and nidai YKB. But still, a good tsubako in his own right.

 

Futagoyama... Nah! They would fake some classic pieces, a not a kukurizaru tsuba

[Marius]

Robert, please show us the other YKB you have..

[christianmalterre]

Dear Robert,

 

the point is that this exemplaire does not at all congrue with YKB Tsuba from Momoyama,nor the Edo Sakura...

afterwards Sakura there´s an big black hole in fact-we still do not know if this school did continue in it´s root per se.

In late(lattest) Edo...we again got an revival...

(not in quality-in but "estimated" taste,vogue,expression" intended...-it but never got the quality we do know from the San-Saku)

So?

Sadahiro group...?

Futagoyama(Tosa)group?

Norisuke himself-???(the Myochin or the Haruta)-me doupt!-they had representatively better income than to do revivals...)(who knows but?)

 

Puzzeling indeed!

 

the iron itself (in your´s Tsuba)definitely does represent nothing from the old ways...

 

Christian

[k morita]

Hello:

 

I was wondering if one of our Japanese members could help me with a tsuba box attribution translation. The attribution is by Kanzan Sato and the tsuba is a Kodai Yamakichibei. I could read most of it however there is some sosho that is difficult for me to read. I have placed “?” question marks where the unknown kanji are written.

 

Top of Cover:

山吉兵　後代 (Yamakichibei Kodai)

甲冑師写 (Kachushi Utsushi)

茸小透鍔 (Take Kosukashi Tsuba)

 

Inside Cover:

丸形鉄地小透 (Marugata Tetsuji Kosukashi)

銘山吉兵後代也 (Mei Yamakichibei Nari)

甲冑師写見本 (Kachushi Utsushi Mihon)

見本？？ (Mihon ??) [i provided a closeup shot of these two mystery kanji]

昭和乙卯年夏日 (Showa Usagi Doshi Natsu Hi)

寒山 (Kanzan)

 

Under Base:

小山正司 (Oyama Shoji)

括猿小透鍔 (?? Kosukashi Tsuba)

 

Has anyone heard of Mr. Shoji Oyama? (Perhaps this was from his collection.)

Robert

 

Hi,

This is right translation.

Top of Cover:

山吉兵　後代 (Yamakichibei Kodai)

甲冑師写 (Kachushi Utsushi)

茸小透鍔 (Kinoko Kosukashi Tsuba)

 

Inside Cover:

丸形鉄地小透 (Marugata Tetsuji Kosukashi)

銘山吉兵後代也 (Mei Yamakichibei kodai Nari)

甲冑師写見事ニ (Kachushi Utsushi migoto-ni- )

出来候御作 (deki soro onsaku. )

昭和乙卯年夏日 (Showa, Kinoto-wu (no) toshi, ka-jitsu)

寒山誌 +kao (Kanzan shirusu + kao)

 

Under Base:

小山正司 (Oyama/Koyama Shoji)

括猿小透鍔 (Kukuri-zaru, Kosukashi Tsuba)

[Robert Mormile]

Mr. Morita:

 

Thanks very much for the time you spent on this translation. This script writing is so difficult to read. I know that it was an education for me as well as other NMB readers. Thanks again. Most sincerely,

 

Robert

[Robert Mormile]

Christian:

 

Thank you for contributing to this discussion. Please be aware that I never believed that this was the work of one of the san-saku. I believe second half of the Edo Period. If the maker’s intention was to fool someone with a gimei I believe they would have chosen a smallish moko-gata with a barely readable山吉兵 signature and then patina-ed the heck out of it. In this case, I see no evidence that the intention was to mislead, thus not gimei.

 

What intrigued me about this tsuba was the shape, the appearance of the ji, (deki and color) and the Kanzan Sato Authentication. It feels quite nice in the hand; iron tsuba is such a tactile thing. I studied a shodai-Yamakichibei at DTI in October for a good length of time and there is no mistaking the early work to that of later generations.

 

Warm Regards, Robert

[Soshin]

Hi Robert,

 

I checked my copy of Owari to Mikawa no Tanko and the tsuba in question it clearly the work of what that book calls the Yondai Yamakichibei working in the mid Edo Period. Any generation beyond the Sandai was considered Kodai by more than a few references including Sansano. Sato stating kodai is not a surprise. The signature is nearly identical to all book examples [think tall kichi (吉) character] and the workmanship excellent, and a good match specifically the style of rim and glossiness, polished appearance of the iron. :D

 

P.S. Starting with the Nidai Yamakichibei many utsushi of popular designs and styles were made by this school.

[Robert Mormile]

David:

 

Firstly, I am pleased to know that the tsuba went to a good home, namely yours. One of our fellow board-members and a few folks at the Tampa show offered up interesting theories. Although the “san-dai” is a generally accepted principle in YKB tosogu study, some are referring to the “go-dai” or five generations of Yamakichibei. Some believe that “yon-dai” was one person and yet others have stated that yon-dai, is a category for later works. Therefore, ko-dai (as Mr. Sato’s hakogaki states) would represent an even later iteration of the lineage. It seems that that the waters after the san-dai are murky and beg further inquiry. If you would like, please post some examples of the mei (with the long kichi) that you mentioned to open up the discussion to others.

 

I will be traveling on business over the next few and might not be able to respond but it is not due to my lack of interest in the thread. Most Sincerely,

 

Robert

[Soshin]

Therefore, ko-dai (as Mr. Sato’s hakogaki states) would represent an even later iteration of the lineage. It seems that that the waters after the san-dai are murky and beg further inquiry. If you would like, please post some examples of the mei (with the long kichi) that you mentioned to open up the discussion to others.

Hi Robert,

 

In my opinion Okamoto Yasukazu is a much better reference expert on Yamakichibei school then Kanzan Sato who was much better known in his days for his skills with the attribution of nihonto. A discussion of the poorly understood linage of the Yamakichibei school is well beyond the scope of this specific message board focused on offering general translation assistance. Therefore I will only discuss the many similarities of the mei between my ( :D ) tsuba (once yours) and what Okamoto has as the mei for the yon-dai Yamakichibei in this book Owari to Mikawa no Tanko. I will also discuss the differences between the tsuba mei and what Okamoto labels as the prototypical mei of the Ko-dai Yamakichibei artists. Here is the text and figure in the book where Okamoto shows the mei of what he labels as the san-dai and yon-dai.

The top mei is the san-dai Yamakichibei and the lower two mei are two different variations of the yon-dai Yamakichibei. The kichi (吉) character is much taller specifically the bottom radical then you see in any of the earlier generations. This is first and most important point that makes me think this tsuba is made by the artist known as the yon-dai in Okamoto's book. The second point is the angle/shape of the first stroke of the yama (山) character which is clearly different than the third generation.

In regards to this issue of Ko-dai (後代) Okamoto in his book discusses the fact that the many artists that make up the later generations of Yamakichibei school used only the two character niji-mei (Yamakichi 山吉). I hope you and other people find this helpful.

 

P.S. Mariusz K., yes Robert's other Yamakichibei tsuba is very nice and I have been lucky enough to see it twice in person. :D