Early Menuki Study Thread: Ezo vs Ko Mino

[Pete Klein]

John -- it's, 'Tosogu no Kigen'.

 

You know, even though it's published as Yujo I have a difficult time believing those menuki were from him. They look like rather typical Ko Kinko work. But, then again, what da 'ell do I know?

[Pete Klein]

Here is an interesting (at least to me) F/K, papered hozon to Ko Mino:

 

 

If you look carefully you will notice something different about them, aside from their classic Ko Mino construction. These have been fitted with sleeves to re-use them, possibly after they were damaged at some point. Someone felt very highly of these.

[Pete Klein]

 

[BMarkhasin]

Very nice Pete. Do you have any thoughts or insights on early influence of koMino on Goto works? I found a comment in notes I took from a conversation with some Japanese collectors, which I am trying to pursue. They relate to orientation of karakusa in early works. I will post if/when I can track examples.

 

Best,

Boris.

[Pete Klein]

Boris -- I see little to none. Even their fabrication techniques differed.

[John A Stuart]

Pete, I had to look back to see what I had written. Jiten, Kigen. Must have been bitten by a tick and gotten Rhyme Disease. Haa. John

[Pete Klein]

John -- that's a GREAT double - entendre!

[John A Stuart]

Pete, you said; "You know, even though it's published as Yujo I have a difficult time believing those menuki were from him. They look like rather typical Ko Kinko work."

I, of course, can only rely on what is given as fact. I know what you mean though. In fact that is why I found them so telling. The ko-Mino botan menuki I posted are very similar in construction and style and does not have that typical lozenge sukashi ko-Mino shape. They were said to be yamagane and I reported true to the description, but, I believe they are actually shakudo. This change of style may be because of the Yujo influence. One or two examples are hardly conclusive. I include a close-up of the jita of a kozuka of the same theme by Yujo. John

[BMarkhasin]

Below is a graphic showing the similarity of the ko Mino karakusa design of the mid-Muromachi (15th c.), and that of Goto Yujo's (1440-1512). It seems that Yujo essentially reproduced the Mino sinusoidal, slightly offset design construct and added a central mon, which actually looks a bit haphazard. Perhaps this was an early work by Yujo, before he branched and created his own distinctive style. The nanako are more reflective of ko Mino as well, with small punches, not as clean and linear as later Goto works. Yujo is actually not known for perfect nanako, and the second master's (Goto Sojo) nanako work is considered superior to Yujo's.

 

 

Best,

Boris.

[Ford Hallam]

ok, new evidence....don't know why I didn't see it before [ ]

In a nutshell;

the analyses Boris posted of the Akemi menuki and tiger menuki (and as illustrated in the 4th KTK catalogue in his article) purporting to be 14th and 15th century respectively appears to contradict the typical analyses of copper alloys up until the late 18th century.

The analyses are simply too clean.

Any number of analyses can be referenced to illustrate the point, notably a series carried out over the past 15 years by Susan LaNiece at the British Museum but even going back to the 19th century work by Gowland and Roberts-Austen, but in essence the copper is too pure. In fact the analysis shows no other constituents other than copper, silver and gold.  Neither copper nor silver was available in that sort of purity in the 14th or 15th century. In the case of the copper component we have to wait until the 18th century and for silver at least the start of the 17th century. Japanese copper was argentiferous, that is it contained significant amounts of silver, enough to make it's extraction worthwhile. This development is well documented and reasonably accurately dated. As a consequence of the de-silvering process the arsenic component is also removed. This suggests that in both these alloys the silver was added to a very pure copper that lacks any trace of lead (a major ingredient in the refining process) silver and arsenic.

What we would expect to see for any pre-1600 alloy would be (at least) around 2% of the alloy being made up of arsenic, lead, antimony, zinc and a unquantifiable trace of iron. On into the Edo period copper is much more well refined and contains only between 0.5~1% lead. We only see copper as pure as these analyses seem to show in the 18th century. This picture, built up from numerous analyses, fits perfectly with what we know about the developments of both copper and silver refining over this time-frame. For more details and more precise dating of the introduction of the various refining processes (along with descriptions of these technologies)
and lots of references to archeaometallurgy papers buy my forthcoming book []


If we examine the analysis results as depicted in the graph we see no spikes other than silver and copper, and gold in one. And there are no unidentified elements present, apparently, given that the results add up to100%. In terms of antique alloys pre-1800 this result is an anomaly, a bit like a laptop on the Titanic []

In light of these facts I'd suggest Thomas Helm's post be reconsidered.



   

  Quote

Fukunaga Suiken Senseis' Nihonto Daihyakka Jiten if I understand correctly he says;

    Ezo Koshirae -
    From the 14th century there was a thriving trade with the north, one in which all that was old or no longer in fashion was traded to the Ainu. Once into the Tokugawa period there were a number of rebellions and whichever Daimyo was successful in putting down the unrest won the rights to this trade. There was a caveat however imposed by the Bakufu and that was that no "Swords" or other weapons were to be traded. So there developed the practice of selling old koshirae with cracked, chipped, rusted or otherwise useless blades as tsunagi.

    At the time of the Haitorei many swords were sent north - there was a fad for swords in "silver" koshirae so enterprising sword shops in Edo took old blades and made them up in koshirae wrapped completely in copper sheet which was then "silvered". ( I am sure Ford will know what he means) In the Taisho period many of these were brought back by tourists enjoying tours of the exotic north. Naturally among these travellers were sword enthusiasts and they were shocked to find 1000 year old koshirae hanging untouched on the walls of the Ainu lodges! So there began a re-imporation of sorts with collectors buying old swords and fittings from "Ezo". There were early Mino and Early Goto items found, so much so people even theorized about an "Ezo Goto" school or that Yujo or some of his kin had been exiles. (He implies of course that we now know none of this to be true.)
    He describes two kinds of koshirae; one with no tsukaito and no tsuba often with a kodachi similarly outfitted but all looking very much like Kamakura era katana koshirae. The other wrapped all in silver with copper bands but make no mistake he says these were all made on Honshu.

    He also has an entry on Ezo menuki which is relevant;
    磨り剝がした目貫 Surihagashita menuki also known as Shima-menuki. A style of menuki created by the Kyoto Umetada group around Kyoho (1716) - a base of shibuichi is "gilded" (Kinmekki) and then the high-points are sanded down revealing the base metal. As an example a gold mountain rubbed down would reveal a "snow capped" peak. In the Bakumatsu period the Edo Umetada group revived this type of menuki. (He says nothing here about Hokkaido or the Ainu)

 

And just for interests sake and completeness here's a f/k set I recently photographed in the V&A. They caught my attention because they look very similar in design and workmanship of the Shachi menuki Boris published in the KTK catalogue.

The mei appears to be that of a 5th generation master of the Edo-Umetada Narishige School called Narimasa. (b.1742)

 

 

 

[Ford Hallam]

Apologies, somehow I forgot to add the images mentioned.

 

[Chishiki]

Hi.

I wanted to add these menuki to this thread for reference.  Tokubetsu Hozon, Ezo.   I assume they fall into the middle to later period.  Mark