For the sake of discussion - Identification / verification

[batesman]

Hello All,

 

I am posting this to try and understand your process. Let's say that you are evaluating this item for purchase:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/y-3-Japanese-sw ... 51b78d83ae

 

Granted, you might choose not to buy from ebay, but for the sake of the discussion, we will. You have only the images present to work with, and cannot perform an in personal inspection prior to purchase. How do you evaluate the item? What is your method?

 

Given that this is supposedly the work of a Bizen smith of note, how do you verify its authenticity? How do you date it?

 

My only reference book at this time is, "The Samurai Sword - A Handbook", by John M. Yumoto, and I'm in the process of building my body of knowledge, but I'm interested in your thought process here.

 

Kind Regards!

[Peter Bleed]

Jon,

Welcome. You will have a great time, but I am not sure that I can outline a "thought process" that describes Japanese sword assessment. I think "collecting behavior" is far more important than any "thought process". I think you should look at swords, meet and chat with others, and see how swords actually move.

I urge you to come to the upcoming Tampa sword show. And I'll bet there are collectors somewhere near you. Call them!

The eBay item you asked us to consider seems completely typical of stuff that is out there. While you are touring eBay, you might wish to check out these items.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Facts-and-Funda ... 485f90c618

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Japanese-Sw ... 3389960ad8

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Connoisseur ... 1c3af09fd1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Japanese-Sw ... 27dcdd5197

Again, welcome

Peter

[batesman]

Thank you, Peter. I have looked around my area, and unfortunately there isn't a collectors club nearby. As a result, my ability to inspect confirmed antiquities is limited. However, I am considering coming to Tampa for the show.

 

At present, my only reference book is is "The Samurai Sword - A Handbook", by John Yumoto, and I have quickly learned that no single book is adequate.

 

Is it even possible to buy a sword on ebay with confidence without knowing the seller in some capacity? How can I be reasonably sure that this item is not a well made replica?

 

Kind Regards!

[cabowen]

Jon-

 

What you are asking would take a book to answer. I would suggest getting a library together first, then, as Peter has suggested, see as many swords as possible-preferably in a setting that allows you to tap into the expertise of others. Choose your swords carefully, your mentors even more so!

 

There are many people here who are always willing to assist. Take advantage of all the resources available to you. Go slowly.

 

And avoid buying anything on ebay unless you want to learn the hardway...

 

Best of luck.

[sohei]

Peter and Chris are absolutely right, both these guys are giving you top-notch advice, and it would take a very long paragraph to briefly describe why this shouldn't be on your buy list. But, I am here to talk about the seller; he is Japanese, his name is Yuzo Maruyama, last time I saw him was at the San Fran sword show about 3 years ago. He is about the last 'motel buyer' out there, he picks up and sells a lot of swords, he is not interested in being your friend or mentor, he is interested in buying and selling. I do not know if he is a member on this list. He is not interested in 'fake' swords, so what he sells is probably the real deal. BUT, he told me he sends the good stuff back to Japan, but generally not gendaito. If you buy from him, it is going to be your responsibility to determine if the signature is correct, etc. So, if you follow him, you are going to see a lot of lower end pieces, that the signature may or may not be correct on, and gendaito and showato. This is of course, my opinion based on my dealing with him, and talking to him. Hope this helps you understand him as a dealer, follow Chris & Peter's advice on whether to buy.... Thanks, Mike

[nagamaki - Franco]

Strongly recommend especially for first time buyers to purchase their first sword in hand. And, yes, after you have the library to familiarize yourself with the 5 main traditions of sword making, as well as the changes in shape running from beginning to end. Otherwise, how in the hell do you even know what you like? Shows will introduce you to and open your eyes to quality swords and polish, which then allows you to better grasp what it is that you are buying and perhaps more importantly for a newbie what you're not buying. Also, there is nothing that says to be in a hurry to buy, even if you go to a show. Don't buy junk are the common words of wisdom new collectors should keep at the forefront of their thoughts.

[Uechi]

As I new member to the forum I've been examining the posts with interest. When it comes t0 -obay. I have purchased several mediocre cheap swords just to get my feet wet. I caution you to be careful with this vendor. His photography is deliberately vague and his descriptions are not entirely accurate. He likes to use the term "no forging flaws" when he should say" no fatal forging flaws." Both swords I purchased had Kitaeware. One had numerous examples. When I pointed out his inaccurate descrpitions. I originally received no response. Subsequently he posted a sword that he said was almost mint. What he neglected to mention or show easily in his photos was the damage to the bohi. When I examined the photos by enlarging I asked him a question about this. In fairness to him he answered honestly that there was damage. I withdrew my bid with his agreement. Subsequently he blocked me from bidding on any other swords. This is alright with me because I had learned my lesson. As always it is Caveat Emptor( let the buyer beware). It is highly unlikely I would ever buy a another sword on e-bay. Lesson learned, fortunately cheaply.