Seki stamp removed.sword from japan.

[Kai-Gunto]

With crappy tsuka .......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HA-J-Japanese-S ... 258771a860

[Dr Fox]

Well spotted Thomas.

 

It certainly looks as if your observation is right on. This must be considered an attempt to deceive and thus fraud. This links into a most recent post here about, Showa stamp and gendaito blade.

[Brian]

No..it is merely the way it was probably registered in Japan, and had to have the arsenal stamp removed to be done so. Certainly not the first time we have seen that, and not the last.

As for claiming it is handmade...see all of the discussion on this, and realize that you cannot call this fraud..merely "buyer beware and be educated"

 

Brian

[drbvac]

There is nothing in the listing that is incorrect or looking like it was trying to deceive. I bought one in Civilian mounts and the stamp had been filled in with wax mixed with dirt/rust and it was invisible. Only when I cleaned the nakago with alcohol did the wax dissolve and I was able to see the stamp - that was an attempt to defraud - this is as Brian says - and it is true for EVERY THING listed on E-bay - not just Nihonto = Buyer Beware.

 

That said you may be surprised at the price this finally goes for considering everything and it is worth a certain amount even with the stamp removed = a good toshigi could make that area indistinguishable to the rest .

[Dr Fox]

For consideration from the listing seller.

Hi

 

The basic rule of thumb I use to distinguish between showato and gendaito (at least here in Japan) is the presence to torokusho, or registration certificate. Machine made blades cannot be registered and are subject to confication or destruction by cutting it to pieces less than15 cm if submitted for registration.

 

I have no way of knowing whether the stamp ground off was Seki stamp or Sho stamp, or whatever, but the presence of arsenal stmp does not automatically make it a showato. Recent studies have sown that the stamped marks were for identification as well as quality assurance, and not to distinguish showato.

 

http://jigokustudios.com.au/showatogendaito/

 

In recent years, though, I have seen a few exceptions where an obvious showato was registered. But they were cases where the blade was in pristine gunto koshirae, and obviously the government has decided that they were worthy of preservation. Blades fitted into regular koshirae for iai etc., like the one I am listing, cannot be registered unless the government evaluators determined the blade to be traditionally made.

[Brian]

Recent studies by whom?

Recent studies have shown the opposite actually. The fact that the Japanese govt regards these stamps as an indication of being arsenal swords is also enough. Let's see these pics of this sword that they polished, and of the stamp. But lest we go down the same old tired path yet again......

 

Brian

[cabowen]

For consideration from the listing seller.

Hi

 

The basic rule of thumb I use to distinguish between showato and gendaito (at least here in Japan) is the presence to torokusho, or registration certificate. Machine made blades cannot be registered and are subject to confication or destruction by cutting it to pieces less than15 cm if submitted for registration.

 

There is theory and there is practice, or, you might say honne and tatemae....Sure, if the rules were followed to the letter and every shinsa'in registering swords was heartless and had expert experience and knowledge...it would be a good rule of thumb.

 

The reality is there are plenty of showa-to that have been registered. Leaning on the existence of a torokusho is a simple convenience that removes the responsibility from the seller to know his merch to someone else. It is laziness at best...

 

Having registered zillions of swords, having seen showato stamped blades receive torokusho, having a few close friends that sit on the registration shinsa panel, I have what I would consider both practical experience and an inside view of what happens at these events. I know for a fact that showato sometimes receive torokusho- not because they are in pristine condition or because collectors are into them, but because most frequently, in my experience, they are brought in by an elderly widow or son or grandson of the former owner and out of compassion the shinsa'in looks the other way so that the family can keep intact a highly valuable sentimental link to their loved one.

 

As I have written here recently, despite how traditionally made a showa-to may look, there is a reason it was stamped- it could be the materials, the construction method, or maybe a little of both. It may not be readily apparent. This is precisely why a stamp would make sense.

 

By the way, there are several sellers on ebay who advertise their sho and seki stamped blades as "hand forged gendaito". Some of these people know better and I look upon this as dishonest. Others do not and as always, buyer beware.