Less than Preservable?

[Peter Bleed]

Dear Friends,

One of my swords recently was recently awarded tokubetsu hozon certification. That is not exactly what I was hoping for, although I certainly recognize that it is positive. Experts consider this sword especially worthy of preservation. I’ll try to take good care of it.

The experience has got me thinking about swords that are NOT considered worthy of preservation. The NBTHK has laid out clear criteria that make a sword worthy of preservation. But, is there a policy about the appropriate treatment of swords that don’t make the cut? If the organization doesn’t have a policy, can anybody describe how they are treated by Japanese collectors? And what do Board members think is appropriate treatment for swords that don’t get or won’t be recognized as hozon?

Peter

[cabowen]

Ideally they all end up in the hands of historians and anthropologists who value their historical cache as artifacts and preserve them for future proof that not all Japanese swords are works of art...

[kusunokimasahige]

Chris,

 

Would you rather have the lesser works of art also preserved in a vault of some rich bugger for none to see ?

 

[cabowen]

Without trying to offend anyone, frankly, those without any artistic merit can stay in a vault as far as I am concerned. I have no real interest in rough or crude work. But as I have said many times, I am more interested in the art and less so in the artifacts.

[Brian]

A sword that is deemed gimei won't get papers. Does that mean they deem it not worthy of preservation, or is passing shinsa not the guide as to whether something is worthy or not? Just curious.

 

Brian

[Dr Fox]

For me the term 'worthy of preservation', is a standard notation on a judgement paper. But there are many blades that are not papered, or have lost papers. Should any blade exhibit the characteristics of a true nihonto, even gi-mei, then preservation is of course the rule.

 

Again the worthiness of papers raises its head.

[Bazza]

An eminently sensible question Peter and one that has always been a dilemma. A polisher I once met (Japanese) was passionate about his art and said "All swords should be preserved". Many years later I showed a wakizashi in dreadful condition to another (Japanese) polisher, equally passionate. I knew the wakizashi wasn't too good the condition notwithstanding, but as it was mumei I was curious about a single kanji on the mune of the nakago. He looked at it and said (without commenting on the kanji) "This is the worst kind of sword you can have". Hmmmmm... Given that a polisher has IMHO the equivalent of a PhD (or two), why would he consent to putting poor art quality, though good and serviceable weapons, on his stones with his hard won years of knowledge???

 

My collecting path over 50 years has been to buy books and to look at as many swords as possible. Here in Australia without good museums and sensei this meant for me "beating the bushes" to turn up as many swords as I could and decide which were "good" and which "bad" by criteria I divined from The Books. Its never been a good policy to sink a few thousand dollars into polishing a sword just because one "likes it" and ending with something worth half as much or less on the market. So to cut it short, for most Western collectors Peter's question boils down to running the gauntlet of experience and learning by trial and error. It is very time consuming and one has to be passionate. A person's means obviously filters in here too, and in truth and finality there isn't enough money or artisans in the world to preserve all swords, nor collectors to house them decently, never mind the vicissitudes of swords in hands ignorant of their intrinsic qualities or of their cultural and historical significance. Never mind myopic governments....

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Pete Klein]

"One of my swords recently was recently awarded tokubetsu hozon certification. That is not exactly what I was hoping for, although I certainly recognize that it is positive."

 

Peter, I'm a bit confused by this statement. If you sent it in for paper and it received Tokubetsu Hozon, what were you expecting? It's not going to be Juyo as that is a separate shinsa.

[raven2]

  Brian said:

A sword that is deemed gimei won't get papers. Does that mean they deem it not worthy of preservation, or is passing shinsa not the guide as to whether something is worthy or not? Just curious.

 

Brian

 

A good question, Brian. I would certainly not agree with the idea that only papered swords are worthy of preservation. I have a gimei katana which is very well made and I certainly feel it is worthy of preservation. A thought that I have is that it is a good idea to have examples of all types (gimei, mumei and authentic signature) so that people can see the history of nihonto and see what was done with the blades.

[Peter Bleed]

Dear Friends,

Thank you for a number of insightful responses. I won't go into the complete back story of the sword that got me started on this topic, but I certainly do understand the shinsa process and that no higher rating than TBH could be expected at this pass. It did very well, but I sensed no encouragement for resubmission to a higher level. It seems this sword has topped out but at a very respectable level. Someday I would like to hear what the Board has to say about swords that "didn't make Juyo." It is pretty hard to feel real good about that. But let's continue thinkng about the lower end of the rating scale. The comments offered in this thread have opened this topic very well.

Maybe there is a niche for antiquarian "artifact" collectors who will take care of the stuff that "serious" collectors reject. As an archeologist I might be too tolerant to distressed objects because I am comfortable looking a what objects "used to be." But, modern Japanese collectors' standards emphasize 1) good quality, and 2) GREAT condition. Collectors who can or wish to reject those standards, may find lots of interesting swords. The caution is, however, that those - good gimei, tired old, or mumei - swords may not be good investments. (But, please remember that chasing juyos may not be the best way of enhancing your retirement income!)

Let me also predict that if the HOZON standard becomes widely applied, lots of "good" Japanese swords are going to fall into limbo. To illustrate, let me say that I collect Sendai Shinto and anybody who collects those has lots of what are politely called "ATO-MEI". These are school swords that were "signed" sometime after 1876. As gimei that can't get papers AND/BUT they won't do any better if they become mumei. The system encourages these swords to be ignored, although I can appreciate them as aesthetically worthy, historically interesting reflections of Sendai-han history. They are never going to get the attention and respect they deserve. There are many comparable categories of swords that can't get the respect they deserve. War damaged gunto, are another example.

And then there are swords that don't get papers, but are described as "worthy of preservation." I submitted an obviously old sword in Yokohama Tachi mounts to a NTHK panel in Chicago where it was judged 1) Kamakura age, 2) retempered, and 3) worthy of preservation. What are we to think about such swords? Is the Shinsa saying that THEY don't care about this sword, although they want ME to take care of it?

Peter

[Bazza]

Well, as happenstance would have it I was doing some research on a sword in another thread (Keith McCauley, "new sword", viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17221) when I came across an essay in our Articles section. Anyone who has followed this thread with interest would do well to read it as IMHO it is very germane to the question Peter raised:

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/arti ... chools.pdf

 

I'll also post this in Keith's thread.

 

Can I wish everyone a Very Happy Nihonto New Year.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Alex A]

Your point of view will hark back to type of collector that you are and your own personal preferences. A great number of folk have a sympathetic approach to what other folk may think of as junk. For example, you only need to look at how many feathers are rustled when someone looks for advice on home polishing a tired old broken blade (im not talking about an hidden gem). Its surprising how many folk seek to preserve, even when theres little to be gained. At the end of the day they are all hand made antiques, no matter the condition or workmanship. For the lower end of the preservation spectrum, the question raised is "would you buy from here?".

[Jean]

All depends on how you consider Japanese swords, part of history or piece of art or both. The criteria drive the conclusion "worthy of preservation" or not.

 

There are people who think that old rusted kazu uchi mono beyond salvation are worthy of preservation and collectible, why not? They are not on the same level as people who consider Japanese swords as art objects collectible.

 

It is not because an object is not art that it is not collectible. Maybe a tin fork will be collectible and worth of preservation in two thousand year as part of history. It won't be necessarily a piece of art.

 

Shinsa may not have the same criteria as yours :D