Coincidence-2

[svarsh]

That's another example of similar design. What I am trying to understand is how similar the genuine tsubas can be? Or how many similar or almost similar items could be made by one artist/workshop?

Could it be a modern mass production?

[Henry Wilson]

To me the overall composition, design and workmanship looks modern.

[Thierry BERNARD]

agree look a modern made tsuba!

[Toryu2020]

Higo - many designs were copied by later generations. Very popular designs were copied by other artists/schools to some degree of success or not it seems in this third case...

-t

[Gabriel L]

I have seen Edo-period designs which were virtually identical. Clearly some schools or makers kept templates or manuals rather than invent new work for every piece.

[Gabriel L]

Funny thing, here’s one more:

 

http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/colle ... 0351/20253

 

[Curran]

Gabriel,

 

I just arrived here to post the same thing.

I have seen this design so many times, usually as kodai Higo or similar workmanship.

 

While 90% of the Church collection doesn't impress me much, the other 10% comprises pieces I would want to study (6%), designs never seen before (3%), and those I wish I could own (1%).

Such old large collections are wonderful. There are 20 pieces in the Boston collection I could spend a proper day studying and committing to memory 20 minutes each.

[Geraint]

20 minutes each? That's a bit hasty Curran.

 

Back to the topic. We all know that tsuba ko used design books and I have a photograph in one of my books of wooden templates or design models used to explore designs before committing them to metal. The picture shows tsuba and solid fuchi kashira in white wood with inked designs. I don't know if these were used to show customers but it is certainly true that designs are repeated, sometimes copied by other schools and so on.

[Brian]

20 Minutes staring at one item is a loooong time. Ask the guys at the various taikai's who are given seconds to look at blades.

That's over 6.5 hours looking at 20 tsuba.

 

Brian

[svarsh]

Thank you for interesting discussion. In the meantime I have collected the opinion of Elliott Long & Robert Haynes: "...these are Contemporary tsubas representing Edo period Higo/Jingo style pieces."

I believe this can be read as "those tsubas are modern fakes". And this may well include the one from Church collection.

Sergei

[Curran]

The one in the collection predates 1915, which is just shy of 100 years ago minimum age.

Thus, I don't know if I'd regard it as contemporary. Age of 'antique' often described as >= 100 year. Therefore, cutting it close on % of being 'contemporary' by certain definitions.

 

I have seen contemporary tsuba of this design, but they are rather obvious.

Then again, I've dealt with things where 100 years is but the blink of an eye- thus depends on what you really mean by contemporary.

 

It doesn't matter much. If you don't like it, or don't trust it, don't buy it.

I disagree with the Haynes opinion that you share in this particular instance, but it is a split of hairs and Haynes has certainly earned his stripes more than I have.

I don't think contemporary, but I don't think much of the design or workmanship. Therefore not for me, which is not so different than not buying into a contemporary piece.