Tombo

[BIG]

Hi,

 

Guido gives advice about the cardinal animals. My question once again:

 

The kanji for dragonfly Means victory. We see it very often on the Koshirae,

Cause it Stands as a Symbol of victory in battles.

 

Can we describe it also as cardinal theme in the jewelry?

Like to read your opinions.

[cabowen]

Here are the kanji for tombo, dragonfly:

 

蜻蜓 or 蜻蛉

Here is the kanji for victory:

 

勝つ

 

I don't see the similarity....

 

 

It symbolizes summer and autumn in Japan. For the Samurai, it was used as a symbol of power, agility and victory. The dragonfly never retreats (does not fly backwards).

 

Can't quite understand your question here. Maybe you can rephrase it?

[Markus]

I think Peter refers to the other name of tonbo, kachimushi (勝虫), which means

indeed literally "victory insect". By the way, the characters (勝虫) are often also just

read "tonbo".

[cabowen]

Thanks for the info Markus. What dictionaries are you using? I wasn't able to find that reading (勝虫= tonbo) in any of mine. You never fail to amaze with your knowledge of the language.

 

By the way, while I have heard katsu mushi, I have not heard kachi mushi...Are both correct?

[Curran]

It amazes us advanced Beginner-Intermediate types even more.

How many years or decade we have to go.

 

Reading one of Markus' translations this morning and thinking of picking up the Natsuo one as an early gift to self.

Confess I was hoping Lulu.com would do more for 'Black Friday'.

 

Will send a PM to Markus on another topic, looking for recommendations of anything in English on another kodogu topic.

Thanks for the Tombo -Tonbo read.

[Ford Hallam]

As a matter of fact dragonflies do fly backwards, they're quite possibly the most agile fliers in the insect world, they can even fly upside down and perform an Immelmann turn.

 

There you go, another unexamined myth busted and I only learned this recently myself.

 

Perhaps they were admired by swordsmen because of their agility and speed, which makes more practical sense to me.

[cabowen]

As a matter of fact dragonflies do fly backwards, they're quite possibly the most agile fliers in the insect world, they can even fly upside down and perform an Immelmann turn.

 

There you go, another unexamined myth busted and I only learned this recently myself.

 

Perhaps they were admired by swordsmen because of their agility and speed, which makes more practical sense to me.

 

Yeah, I have heard the myth busted before, I was just relaying the explanation I have heard several times in Japan. It makes for a nice story though, doesn't it?

[Markus]

@Chris: Its not found in the dictionaries and more one of those "unofficial" readings. But I have read

it several times and for example the sword dealer Tonbo uses the characters with their reading "tonbo".

 

http://kottou-tonbo.com/

 

As for the "katsumushi" reading, I used that one before but was told by a Japanese friend some years

ago that I should avoid it and use "kachimushi" instead as it is the proper reading for the characters in

question. However, he didn´t tell my if "katsumushi" is incorrect...

[cabowen]

Thanks for the explanation. What a fun thing the Japanese language is....

[BIG]

Hi

 

Ford Hallam is right.

 

They Attacks eyerything and everyone sucessfully. May be Kind of trigger happy samurai

Prefers that aggressive jewelry . So is the dragonfly a cardinal theme or Not ?

[cabowen]

Are you asking about the 12 animals of the Japanese zodiac? it's an insect, not an animal, so no, in that case.

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for this interesting topic. Here is Yamakichibei tsuba I am doing a write up about for my website that has a twin dragonfly design. The tsuba was likely used on a wakizashi. Enjoy.

[BIG]

Hi Chris,

 

Ford Hallem is right,

But Not only the possibilities, but also the character (and I think character First)

Of the Dragon Fly made it a Samurai Idol.

Translate: fast, flexible, tricky and very aggressive fighter.

Are These lightweight Aliens on the Same Level as Tons of Tigers, Dragons, Lions ....?

[cspage]

Having been head-on dive-bombed by a large dragonfly while canoeing the Pudding River in Oregon (a butterfly had landed on my hat), I can attest to the aggressiveness, lightning strike attitude of these magnificent insects (the butterfly escaped the initial strike due to my chicken-hearted duck, rose above the river and was summarily...taken); a worthy symbol of the Samurai.

 

Colin

[Guido]

FWIW, I was taught the same reading of "kachimushi" for 勝虫 as Markus.

 

@ Peter: do you mean popular/common motif [cardinal theme] for sword fittings [jewelry] (beliebtes/häufiges Motiv für Schwertzierrat)? If so, then the answer is "yes".

[Soshin]

Having been head-on dive-bombed by a large dragonfly while canoeing the Pudding River in Oregon (a butterfly had landed on my hat), I can attest to the aggressiveness, lightning strike attitude of these magnificent insects (the butterfly escaped the initial strike due to my chicken-hearted duck, rose above the river and was summarily...taken); a worthy symbol of the Samurai.

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I would aggree with Colin. I have seen a dragonfly go after house flies and it was impressive display of an insect alpha predator.

[Mantis dude]

Dragonflies are wimps...............Mantis rule!!!!!

[Baka Gaijin]

Morning all

 

Recently I watched a dragonfly square up to its exaggerated reflection in the curve of a polished metal handrail which was on the steps at the Katori Jingu.

 

Within minutes another, or the same bad boy returned and did the same.

 

Cheers

[raven2]

Dragonflies are wimps...............Mantis rule!!!!!

 

Nice Menuki, Ken. They almost look like they are smiling.

[Robert Mormile]

Interesting. I have heard “katsumushi” forever but it doesn’t appear in any dictionaries. I even looked in a 古語事典 (kogojiten) where many early or outdated words could be found and can’t find 勝虫 anywhere. I looked under kachimushi, katsumushi and tombo as well… Perhaps it is only a colloquialism?

 

Robert

[BIG]

Hi

 

found Info and Kanji in old Christie's THE LUNDGREN COLLECTION of Japanese

Metalwork

[BIG]

Hi

 

Joke

 

Found it in the Pudding River in Montana !