Oku MOTOHIRA kantei point question

[Gilles]

Gentleman,

 

I have a kantei point to ask you about the shin-shinto swordsmith MOTOHIRA that I have trouble to grasp. On Aoi arts site Tsuruta san is selling a super nice wakizashi (please see the link below) and he is making to following assessment that I seem to understand but that I can't find on the provided pictures.

- first, Tsuruta san is talking about the shinogi line in the nakago and I don't grasp the point he is explaning.

- then, he writes "On the upper part of the nakago, one or two lines are engraved", I don't understand and i can't see those two lines....

 

Can someone explain me or show me pictures of the features I don't understand ?

 

 

aoi art original text :

Kantei:genuine Motohira:please look at the shindig line on the nakago.

the shape of the nakago line is not fit on the bottom of the nakago which means slightly different place.

On the upper part of the nakago, one or two lines are engraved.

If the shindig line on the nakago fit the end of the nakago or doesn’t have line on the nakago

jiri You should understand the blade is fake.

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-oku-y ... motohira-2

 

 

Moreover, in the excellent book NIHON SHINSHINTO SHI by our friend Markus Sesko, he wrote that some blade show at the nakago-jiri one or two horizontal strokes which are regarded as secret chisel marks of the first generation Motohira.

Can someone provide pictures about those marks ?

 

Thank you for your active help.

 

Best regards,

[takakage]

Hi,

 

I'm wonder if this 2 strokes are not kakushi tagane on the nakago jri on the V (mune side) ?

[Markus]

Tsuruta san provides a small oshigata of the nakago-jiri pointing out the kakushi-tagane.

I guess on photo, it is the small notch we can see (circled in red). Regarding the two lines

he mentions for the top part of the nakago, I must confess that I have no clue as I have

never heard of them and they are also not address on the Japanese site of Aoi Art. My

humble guess is what is circled in red in the pic below.

 

 

 

[Gilles]

Thank you Patrick and Markus for those precisions.

 

Dear markus, a big thanks for your pictures. It shows me exactly were to see.

 

One more question please. Can anyone tell me why Tsuruta san refer to the shinogi line ?

 

How can I understand the following sentence ?

- the shape of the nakago line is not fit on the bottom of the nakago which means slightly different place,

- If the shindig line on the nakago fit the end of the nakago or doesn’t have line on the nakago

jiri You should understand the blade is fake.

 

 

Best regards,

[Markus]

It shows me exactly were to see.

 

In the meanwhile I was contacted by someone who handled this very blade

directly at Tsuruta in Japan. It seems that the person making the descriptions

on the homepage mixed something up because the two tagane marks are

exactly on the underside of the nakagojiri, i.e. only visible when holding the

blade tip down.

 

So we just have to forget about the "upper part of the nakago, one or two

lines are engraved". I guess the person meant "upper face of the nakagojiri".

That´s probably why this issue isn´t found at the Japanese site of Aoi Art.

 

But regarding the shinogi issue, I am afraid I am not of much help in this

respect as I haven´t heard of that peculiarity so far.

[Markus]

Update on the issue with the shinogi and the nakago-jiri:

 

I was informed that at Motohira, the shinogi does not run directly into the

tip of the kengyo-jiri as common for most smiths but runs out 2~3 mm at the

side of that tip. It is not that obvious at the blade in question because the

very end of the shinogi is not that crips, but I was told that at other Motohira

blades, you can see that the shinogi does not end at the tip of the kengyo-jiri.

 

Many thanks to the attentive reader!

[Gilles]

Dear Markus,

 

thank you so much for this feature. I am quite sure that what you describe is exactly what M. Tsuruta san tried to explain.

 

So, if I understand well, this smith had at least two different "secret marks".

 

That is very interesting and to broaden this subject, it is quite possible that other swordsmith used "personal marks". Do you gentlemen know other sworsdmith doing those secret marks ?

[cabowen]

I think it is visible in this Motohira:

 

[Eric H]

Exceptions prove the rule

Eric

[Gilles]

Dear Chris and Eric,

 

The picture Chris have posted fits the description and the one Eric has posted shows that is is not an unchanging rule.

The questions is why was is done or not ? Was it made at a certain period of the live of this swordsmith ?

 

Can anyone answer that question ?

[cabowen]

Sounds like a good research project! Collect as many valid examples as you can across his working period and see if there are any conclusions you can draw. Please share your results....

[Gilles]

Dear Chris,

 

You are right, I am going to do that, I already have a good deal of examples and will collect other over the time.

Alas, I would have prefered to buy all the Motohira swords I could

[cabowen]

Dear Chris,

 

You are right, I am going to do that, I already have a good deal of examples and will collect other over the time.

Alas, I would have prefered to buy all the Motohira swords I could

 

Excellent! I know that there are many in the Shinshinto Taikan. There are surely others in the Satsuma specific books, the names of which escape me at the moment. You probably have those already. Please keep us posted. If you need any help with translations, please let me know.

 

I agree with regards to Motohira; I have always liked his work as well...

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

The location of the mei on the sword provided by Eric is very strange. I checked all my library and didn't found one like that. It seems there is also a misplaced tagane on the ji moto.

[Jean]

http://www.aoijapan.com/appraisal-quiz-270