Why there was/is a need for a dedicated samurai armor forum

[estcrh]

I just wanted to discuss something that has been mis-interpreted by some of the members of this forum. It seems that a few nihonto forum members feel that forming a dedicated Japanese armor was in some way insulting or disrespectful to Brian since he did make the effort to allow the discussion of Japanese armor on this forum, and not without some members being upset about a non nihonto category being created.

 

I can assure anyone who feels this way that everyone involved with the decision to form and participate in the samurai armor forum has a deep respect for what Brian has done with this forum and that this decision was not taken lightly. Ever since the owner of the only dedicated samurai forum in English closed his forum and completely locked the members out without even allowing people to view the topics and posts (without notice or reason) it was apparent that some kind of action needed to be taken.

 

We did not think it would be right to ask Brian for more space on this forum and yet there was and is a desperate need to collect what is currently known about Japanese armor all in one place. Unlike the subject of nihonto there are only a handful of people in the world who thoroughly understand the subject and without a place to meet, discuss and store their collective knowledge, valuable information gained over many years of study and research could be lost forever. Currently there is a very steep learning curve for anyone to acquire even a slight grasp of the subject and with only a handful of good books available on the subject it is very hard for newly interested people to educate themselves about Japanese armor.

 

Dave Thatcher agreed to oversee the new forum only after thinking it over for a year, this was not an easy decision to make and it was not lightly made in the least. Competing with this forum was never the intention, in fact even though there is a "nihonto" category there is also a sticky post with this message

For nihonto related questions we suggest using the Nihonto message board. There are many categories and dedicated experts who can help with a wide range of questions regarding nihonto (traditionally made Japanese swords). http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/

 

Japanese armor is an extremely complicated subject with a history at least as long as the Japanese sword, I hope that the nihonto forum members will see the samurai armor forum as a parallel forum with both having the exact same goals and not as any type of competition.

[Brian]

Odd that this would come up, because it never even crossed my mind that anyone would think that I had a problem with the Armour forum at all. In fact, the day I became aware of it, I posted about it, and added it to the links page.

I am touched that people would care enough to have concern, but I can assure everyone that I am very happy there are sites out there that cater for speciality subjects, and there is definitely a need for a dedicated armour discussion group. Armour (yes...and armor) is something I know nothing about, so I also frequent that forum to brush up on my knowledge. That subject is possibly even more complicated and bigger than Nihonto, and there is a desperate need for people to help beginners. That cannot be catered for by one Katchu section such as we have here.

There is no competition when it comes to education. This is not a commercial venture. If it was, I might be perturbed by "competition." But it isn't..it is about learning and preservation. So I welcome anything that promotes that aspect.

So I am happy to send people to the Nihon-No-Katchu forum, just as I encourage people to use Stan's excellent Nihonto Club Swordsmith database, Ford's Iron Brush forum and Paul Martin's excellent artists' sections of his forum. These are all in the links section. I frequent them all myself.

I added the Katchu section for the same reason that other forums have a Nihonto section: To address quick questions, and assist beginners until they can find their feet and find the other dedicated pages out there.

I would hope that those posting on other forums also post here. I know we are not perfect, and have lost some members, as we have gained others. In the long run, I hope to encourage more advanced members to return and improve this forum.

 

One thing I am am happy to consider is the setting up of dedicated sections here for any on-topic interest group that can be basically run by the experts in that area. For example: If Dave ever tires of Proboards, I am happy to set up an entire section here moderated by his guys, and basically run by them. This can be private, by invite, or completely open. I hinted at the same thing for an Italian section or French section if their own forums become a problem. I'm open to suggestions and requests, as long as they add value and are related to our interests. These will not dilute what we already do..it will bring in more people with an interest, and hopefully bring more advanced collectors and info. These can be visible to members only, or only those added to the list. Or open to existing members.

 

Thanks Eric for bringing that to my attention, and I assure those with concerns that there is no need. What I do want is those who have drifted off for some reason to email or pm me if they have suggestions to improve the forum, or have concerns. We are all in the same field here, and need to work together as much as possible. Just don't blame it on this person, or that person. We are all adults here, and the personal politics is something that we need to overcome if we are going to promote this field of collecting to the thousands that visit monthly.

 

Brian

[IanB]

Brian and Eric, Although we have never met, I feel I know you both and count you amongst my friends. Now in my early 70's I still remember the day in my early teens when the world of Japanese arms and armour entered my conciousness. Living where I did and still do, in the north of England, there followed many years of isolation from anyone with a similar interest, relieved only when the local library obtained a copy of 'The Arts of the Japanese Sword' by Robinson. How different things would have been had the internet and discussion groups like this, and the armour forum, existed then. Because of your generosity and the time you two gentlemen put in, not to mention all the other knowledgeable contributors to these forums, the information I so desperately sought as a youngster is now available to anyone. I cannot begin to express how much I and so many others owe you both, but I think you know that.

Ian Bottomley

[kusunokimasahige]

It is great to see two fora. And I agree with Ian here.

 

KM

[estcrh]

Odd that this would come up, because it never even crossed my mind that anyone would think that I had a problem with the Armour forum at all. In fact, the day I became aware of it, I posted about it, and added it to the links page.

 

 

Brian I knew that you felt this way, its a testament to this forum that people do have loyalty. The success of this forum and how you have allowed members so much freedom to express their views here was the inspiration for the samurai armor forum.

[Luc T]

some say "less is more", wel in this case "More is more". Both fora are complementary.

When I started with my kabutomania, information was scarce, especially in English.

Now experience and knowledge are available for anyone, thanks to these fora.

Thanks for the administrators!

[uwe]

I`m very grateful for both forums. Will try to contribute as much as I can......

With Thanks

Uwe

[DaveT]

I'm 100% pro NMB. I mainly posted to the now closed Toraba forum as I felt that NMB was more pro Nihonto and accommodated katchu in one cramped location. When Eric approached me to open The Samurai Armour Forum I didn't want to re-create the Toraba model, or draw members away from NMB.

 

Katchu is a vast subject and we know very little about it, the forum allows multiple threads and subject matter together with a private secure section for the members to be able to showcase their treasures.

 

The forum has one clear goal, to further the knowledge and understanding of Samurai Armour. The forum belongs to its members and they decide on what threads and topics are listed. The membership is composed of collectors, re enactors, enthusiasts and dealers. To date there has never been a single in-house cat fight, everything has been positive and constructive. There have been exclusive meetings and visits arranged to collections and museums and papers produced from the collective knowledge. Translations commissioned on valuable Japanese armour source books and so on. Never in my lifetime would I have envisaged such a wealth of valuable information and resource to accumulate in one location.

 

So all I can say is that everyone is welcome, and its not an exclusive club. We have two fantastic forums available to us, and they can interact, and should interact. Lets support both forums and get more people into old swords, guns and armour!

 

Dave

[Chris Davies]

On 11/26/2013 at 9:56 AM, IanB said:

Brian and Eric, Although we have never met, I feel I know you both and count you amongst my friends. Now in my early 70's I still remember the day in my early teens when the world of Japanese arms and armour entered my conciousness. Living where I did and still do, in the north of England, there followed many years of isolation from anyone with a similar interest, relieved only when the local library obtained a copy of 'The Arts of the Japanese Sword' by Robinson. How different things would have been had the internet and discussion groups like this, and the armour forum, existed then. Because of your generosity and the time you two gentlemen put in, not to mention all the other knowledgeable contributors to these forums, the information I so desperately sought as a youngster is now available to anyone. I cannot begin to express how much I and so many others owe you both, but I think you know that.

Ian Bottomley

Many years ago I had the pleasure of meeting Mr Ian Bottomley at Leeds Royal Armouries. I had a fledgling interest in samurai armour, and his kindness and appreciation of my interest, made me feel welcome. And now has grown into a lifelong study of the subject. Thank you Mr Bottomley x

[Shogun8]

I haven't seen or heard from Ian in years. Does anyone know how he's doing?

[uwe]

Me neither…