Opinions on Kabuto Kuwagata

[hddennis]

Just acquired this and wonder it more likely to represent a family crest or a good luck symbol?

 

Howard Dennis

 

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese- ... ns-357211/

[kusunokimasahige]

Ah, so you were the bidder who won !!

 

The symbol of the swastika is a buddhist good luck symbol and has many variations.

 

You do not see the "German" tilted one often.

 

The only family I know of who sporned the Swastika during the Sengoku Jidai were the Iemasa and Nobuhira

(See: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12519)

 

This Maedate/kuwagata looks to me like a Meiji/showa period piece, and not Edo.

 

KM

 

 

 

PS, the high quality F/K in that was posted by Jean in that topic is now followed on ebay by a lower end quality one :

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-GENUIN ... 3a7d069490

[hddennis]

Thanks kusunokimasahige, yes I was the one who was able to persuade him to accept my third offer as I needed it badly for my latest kabuto. It was labeled as possible showa period and I was worried if it was, was it really representing the Nazi swastika and NOT a less sinister Japanese meaning. It seems every time I find the swastika in oriental items the arms face left and not right like this piece. Can anyone show an oriental example that has the same right facing and tilted orientation as my kuwagata?

 

Howard Dennis

[John A Stuart]

At the beginning of sutra the 'Hon' rotates one way and at the end it rotates the opposite way. John

[hddennis]

  John A Stuart said:

At the beginning of sutra the 'Hon' rotates one way and at the end it rotates the opposite way. John

 

I know absolutely nothing about Buddhism but was able to find "sutra" on Google but nothing on "Hon"??? Can you explain in more detail?

Howard Dennis

[John A Stuart]

Sorry, 卍 manji (Japanese), hon (Cantonese) wan (Mandarin). John

[kusunokimasahige]

John, as far as I know the Manji does not flip all of a sudden so that the legs are pointing right.

 

I do think that there is a chance if this is showa that it might have something to do with the Axis powers, but I

cannot say that with 100% certainty of course.

 

Had it been buddhist related it would probably have looked like this :

 

Flipped the image...

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

You should trust me more. Omote and ura manji. See here; http://www.aetw.org/jsp.htm Anyhow read your sutra(s). Just kidding. John

[Dr Fox]

Howard

 

If you haven't already? go to Barry,s post 'Visit to the DTI', open the photos he took, there are 75, check out No61.

Cheers Denis.

[kusunokimasahige]

Thank you John ! Indeed, I should trust you more and read my sutra's. Ura Manji.

 

About the DTY posting, yes I saw it :

 

 

KM

[Viper6924]

The maedate with the "swastika" and the one to the left of it, was apparently the only two that the seller said was "Edo-period".

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

Just for interest here is a Maedate made from an old mirror, with a simple sear spring on the back of the handle. Probably Hachisuka.

 

In the Tokushima Castle Museum I saw many examples of Manji in different contexts portrayed both ways, left and right.

[edzo]

Hello members,

I researched the mon set on pirs photo and found it to be a manji kamon of the Hachisuka Family, I confirmed it on a burial monument, which was on the internet. There are many variants though.

 

Ed F

[Geraint]

Hi Howard.

 

On your original link to the War relics forum there is a page of family mon from a Japanese source which shows both left and right facing manji. Problem solved, surely?

 

All the best.

[hddennis]

  Geraint said:

Hi Howard.

 

On your original link to the War relics forum there is a page of family mon from a Japanese source which shows both left and right facing manji. Problem solved, surely?

 

All the best.

 

Like I said in my original post I found a visual reference online but couldn't read it so I had no idea what it meant.

 

Howard Dennis

[Justin Grant]

Several things:

 

1.) It is near impossible to date Meadate and the such. Unless it is signed and dated and the mei is verified, then you have a solid date. So buy what you like and take dates with a grain of salt.

 

2.) I could be wrong, but I have seen zero Nazi symbols on Japanese armor, be is Taisho or Showa, and all earlier periods had nothing to do with the Nazi's. In fact the symbol has been around for a very long time and the Nazi's adopted it (and in my opinion tainted it).

 

If anyone is familiar with Japanese culture and or Buddhism, and sees this on Japanese good,s would never assume Nazi's.

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning all,

 

Manji, both left facing and right facing are sometimes depicted in early Buddhist iconography as carved stone footprints on the toes of the Buddha.

 

To the early Buddhists, a representative depiction of the Buddha was felt to be improper, however, his footprint was acceptable.

 

Here's a link to BUSSOKUSEKI 仏足石

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/f ... useki.html

 

Cheers