new sword

[J Reid]

Bah... Envious.. Why must I live in Canada, where finding nihonto for $80 in pawn shops is unheard of?

[Brian]

Bah! You are lucky to live in Canada. Try South Africa..where you can't even find a decent pawn shop...never mind a sword in one

 

Brian

[jeeplover]

all I know is I was very lucky this is not common at all.

[jeeplover]

ok now I get the honorary titles http://www.jssus.org/nkp/common_kanji.html

[jeeplover]

found this to is it possible sword was made before a title was given. http://markussesko.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... conferred/

[hxv]

Keith,

 

Mass-produced swords (kazu uchimono) were made in the mid-late Muromachi jidai when feudal Japan was in a raging war and sword production had to keep up with demands. Your sword looks to be a Shinto sword, so not mass-produced. It may not be custom-made, but it's not mass-produced, either.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[jeeplover]

I have been researching honorary titles and it does seem strange it does not have one. was the smith just a bad smith not worthy of a title?

[hxv]

Keith,

 

Just because a smith has no honorary title doesn't mean he is not a well regarded smiths. Honorary titles are just honorary titles - no more, no less.

 

EDIT: I think what's more puzzling is not the lack of honorary title, but the lack of Province where the smith lived and made swords. With no honorary title, the usual mei, especially for daito with plenty of real estate to chisel long mei, is Province+Ju+Smith Name+Saku. It's unusual for a Shinto smith to chisel name+saku alone.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[jeeplover]

thank you . there is so much to learn and to take in . the main thing I do is collect ww2 Japanese military items it seems the swords are way more confusing and in depth than anything. thank you for answering my questions don't be surprised if I ask more in the days to come. I love to read but the reference material on this subject is way more scarce and expensive than most ww2 reference material. thank you very much.

[jeeplover]

I always check back every few weeks to see if new info will surface on swords I have . while rereading this post I clicked on a link.

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/common_kanji.html

 

this one well my sword did not have a honorary title but if you read the link I will copy and past it so it is faster it is below

Honorary titles were mostly old Clan names that were taken from the earliest times in sword making. They were used on there own or were sometimes mixed with other titles. These titles were most commonly represented by the following 藤原 Fujiwara 源 Minamoto 平 Taira 橘 Tachibana 菅原 Sugawara

after reading this does it mean my sword does have a honorary title 藤原 Fujiwara and the smiths name is Toshinaga? or is the link wrong or am I not understanding what I read.

[ROKUJURO]

.....Honorary titles were mostly old Clan names that were taken from the earliest times in sword making. They were used on there (their) own or were sometimes mixed with other titles. These titles were most commonly represented by the following 藤原 Fujiwara 源 Minamoto 平 Taira 橘 Tachibana 菅原 Sugawara.

 

After reading this, does it mean my sword does have a honorary title (藤原 Fujiwara) and the smiths name is Toshinaga, or is the link wrong or am I not understanding what I read.

Keith,

 

It is not the sword that has the title but the smith. It is like a family name, helping to identify the person.

 

Do not worry too much about what is written on the NAKAGO, there is always a chance it is a fake signature, and you cannot be sure unless some real connoisseur or a SHINSA panel has held the blade in hands. But even if the signature was just a phantasy name, it may be a nice sword when restored.

[Brian]

Keith,

These titles were often self appointed, or given arbitrarily. So the smith having a title didn't make him all that more important.

Call it like an honorary doctorate :lol:

 

Brian

[jeeplover]

.....Honorary titles were mostly old Clan names that were taken from the earliest times in sword making. They were used on there (their) own or were sometimes mixed with other titles. These titles were most commonly represented by the following 藤原 Fujiwara 源 Minamoto 平 Taira 橘 Tachibana 菅原 Sugawara.

 

After reading this, does it mean my sword does have a honorary title (藤原 Fujiwara) and the smiths name is Toshinaga, or is the link wrong or am I not understanding what I read.

Keith,

 

It is not the sword that has the title but the smith. It is like a family name, helping to identify the person.

 

Do not worry too much about what is written on the NAKAGO, there is always a chance it is a fake signature, and you cannot be sure unless some real connoisseur or a SHINSA panel has held the blade in hands. But even if the signature was just a phantasy name, it may be a nice sword when restored.

are you saying the signature could be a gemei

[Geraint]

Dear Keith.

 

I cannot speak for Jean but I think you may have misunderstood his intent. I don't think he is suggesting that your sword is gimei, merely pointing out that the sword itself is the thing to be studying. You have found a nice sword which is worth preserving and restoring properly, congratulations. If it lives up to it's promise then it is a really nice find. I think the message is enjoy and explore the sword, don't worry too much about the signature yet. It is perfectly understandable that you want to find out about this smith and your hunt for information is leading you down some interesting paths but what will really fire you up is what is in the blade. Something to look forward to.

 

Enjoy the sword and have fun.

[Brian]

To add, there are maybe more gimei swords out there than genuine signatures. No idea if it is gimei or not, but if it was it is no big deal. Most of us own or have owned gimei swords. Judge the sword by the blade, not the signature. Doesn't make the sword fake, and the age is best judged by the blade features and not the signature anyways. No reason to suspect yours is gimei, but I wouldn't worry too much if it was. Gimei is more of a big deal when you get to a certain level of craftsmanship, condition and collecting level.

 

Brian

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Keith,

I love to read but the reference material on this subject is way more scarce and expensive than most ww2 reference material.

 

What is even more expensive, sometimes much more expensive, is not having read the reference material before buying swords.

Grey

[jeeplover]

Hi Keith,

I love to read but the reference material on this subject is way more scarce and expensive than most ww2 reference material.

 

What is even more expensive, sometimes much more expensive, is not having read the reference material before buying swords.

Grey

in the case of this sword 80 dollars would not have been a loss at all Chinese knock offs at the sword store in the mall cost more. I assure you I am smart enough not to move on something very expensive without extensive research first. as stated I deal mostly in ww2 items some people do not have the patience to deal with me because I will not buy unless I thoroughly research the item. thank you guys for all of your help the other forums that I frequent if people have sword related questions I send them here because I believe you guy are the best

[Bazza]

To add, there are maybe more gimei swords out there than genuine signatures. No idea if it is gimei or not, but if it was it is no big deal. Most of us own or have owned gimei swords. Judge the sword by the blade, not the signature. Doesn't make the sword fake, and the age is best judged by the blade features and not the signature anyways. No reason to suspect yours is gimei, but I wouldn't worry too much if it was. Gimei is more of a big deal when you get to a certain level of craftsmanship, condition and collecting level.

 

Brian

Brian's last sentence is a very succinct expression of both the beginning collector's dilemma and indeed the more advanced collector. Peter Bleed asked a question in his "Less than Preservable?" thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17745 that bears on this. I was doing some research to see if I could find any backing for an idea that Keith's sword might be a Bungo Takada blade as these smiths mostly signed FUJIWARA XX. I had googled "bungo takada school" and was working my way through the hits when I came across an essay in our Articles section. Anyone who has followed this thread with interest would do well to read it as IMHO it is very germane to the question Peter raised in his thread and is I feel somewhat relevant to the discussion here as well:

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/arti ... chools.pdf

 

I've also posted this in Peter Bleed's thread.

 

A Very Happy Nihonto New Year to all.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.