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Sword Kantei

hxv

By hxv
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hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
Posted

I just received my two swords back from NBTHK shinsa, with new polish by Bob Benson. One sword is by Bitchu Yasuhiro with Hozon papers. I'll post pictures in the next couple days for your enjoyment. The other is a mumei daito, which is the subject of the kantei here. This daito also received Hozon papers. I will let this run for one week before posting the shinsa attribution. Any/all ideas are very welcome and much appreciated.

 

Nagasa: 28"

Sori: 3/4".

 

EDIT: Additional info

 

Motohaba: 2.8cm

Motokasane: 7.5mm

Sakihaba: 2cm

Sakikasane: 5.3mm

 

Tsukurikomi: Iori mune. Because of the bohi, I can't tell you anything regarding the shinogiji.

 

Hada: prominently and primarily o mokume, with some masame as Kunitaro san noted. No utsuri is seen.

 

No muneyaki.

 

Hamon: Noi deki suguha, with hada pattern clearly seen in the hamon, a lot of long, bright kinsuji and long, sweeping, dramatic sunagashi, especially in the monouchi. The hamon is wide towards the nakago and the kissaki, and thin (~3-4mm) in the 1/4 middle of the blade.

 

Boshi: The boshi is all intact and is hakikake - no kaeri that I can see.

 

 

If I am missing important pictures, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

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Marius Grand Master

Marius

Posted
Posted

My gut-feel is:

 

 

ko-Uda.

 

 

And here are the reasons:

 

 

Hadamono jigane with loads of masame, thick nioi-guchi with sunagashi (do I see kinsuji?), hakikake boshi. Looks like a sword from Northern Japan, so Hoju is not a bad call.

 

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Bob,

 

Yes, it is indeed the blade!!! What is your kantei? I would be interested in hearing your opinion.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

kunitaro Proficient

kunitaro

Posted
Posted

Dear Hoanh san,

 

If you could give us some more (a lot of ) hints ?

as we can not see the features of this blade by only photos.

 

Motohaba, Sakihaba,Kasane.

Tsukurikomi (Mitsumune or iori mune, hight of mune, High shinogi or low shindig etc.,)

 

Jitetsu (i can see Itame nada with with mokume and almost Msame near Ha.)

How is Shinogi-ji ? (Masame or mixed with Mokume)

 

Is there Utsuri ? if so, what kind of Utsuri ?

Ji-nie ? or other activities ?

 

Hamon : Shape of Hamon, Nie-deki or Nioi-deki ? What kind of Nie ? How is Nioi-kuchi ? and other activities ?

 

Boshi : Shape of Boshi, Ko-maru? o-maru ? with Hakikane ? the shape of Kaeri and how long is the kaeri goes ?

 

Is there any Mune-yaki ?

 

we can not really see those activities by only photos.

 

When we have those hint, Kantei game become interesting.

 

Also, person who answer should say the reason why they think this answer. (Smith, school, province or period )

Some person can try to guess the smith, someone who try to guess "Shinto or Koto" depend on their own level.

When people answer with the reason, It will be educational for everybody.

and It is good study to understand NBTHK attribution.

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dear Kunitaro san and Mariusz,

 

I will get you the info later today. Thank you for the suggestions!!!

 

Regards,

Hoanh

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi,

 

I edited the original post to include more info. If there is anything else you would like to know, please let me know. The replies posted so far are very educational and have given me a little window in each person's thinking.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

Surfson Grand Master

Surfson

Posted
Posted

Hoanh. As I told you previously, I got some opinions about it being saiba and retempered. We have other threads about how koto can be retempered and still paper at the NBTHK. Did the NBTHK say anything about it? I couldn't find a mizukage and was never convinced that it was saiba. As to school, I'm afraid that my kantei skills are not enough to warrant even a well educated guess. Cheers, Bob

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Bob,

 

The Hozon papers should arrive in a few days. I don't have it in hands at the moment. But, in my communications with Bob Benson regarding the shinsa results, no mention of saiba was ever made. He would have told me if the blade were saiba. The shinsa attribution is pretty interesting. I must say I learned a lot. It forced me to do a whole lot of reading.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dear Kunitaro san,

 

I believe the Hozon attribution is to a particular line of smiths with a few generations and did not specify a particular generation. The attribution does not seem to be a school, as "den" is not part of the attribution.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

Brian

Brian

Posted
Posted

Hada and hataraki....I'd bid on Uda too. Not particularly Ko-Uda though...a little later. Kunihisa..Kunitomo...

That mokume is quite striking.

 

Brian

seattle1 Experienced

seattle1

Posted
Posted

Hello:

Thank you Mariusz for the excellent discussion of den, ha and mon referenced from Darcy Brockbank's writings. It is really educational. If I could add a small gloss, probably applicable to either the Den as in Gokaden meaning, or the specification for an individual smith meaning, it would be to point out that it is usually taken as a negative comment when found on a paper, and that belief is so strong that it gets integrated into a somewhat lower price than were it not there for the same blade. The market interprets it as an introduction of uncertainty, and markets not liking uncertainty, the consequence is a discount. I cannot track down the reference, but if memory serves, Tanobe sensei once noted that while it implies a difference from the standard "ideal type", it was not necessarily bad, just different. That would seem to imply that if a smith achieved something nice, beyond the usual expectation of tradition or individual it could as easily be value adding as value reducing depending on what the difference is.

Arnold F.

  • Like 1
kunitaro Proficient

kunitaro

Posted
Posted

I think that the lower mekugi ana is the original one.

so, the sword is about 2 inches suriage. 75-76cm nagasa and 2.0-2.5cm sori.

and the mune side of nakago is greatly shaped for setting less Sori when the nakago is in tsuka.

To see/imagine the original sugata (sori), is to follow Mune line from top to middle, and follow Mume amd Shinogi line from middle to bottom and into nakago.

Because, ha-line and shinogi line of top half are changed by polishing.

It is for Period.

 

Hamon: Noi deki

 

Is it "Nioi-dei" or :Nie-deki" ?

It is for school (Gokaden).

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dear Kunitaro san,

 

As you can see in the pictures, there are lots of activities in the hamon. However, the nie are so fine that I think of them as nioi. So, I would say nioi deki. Sorry for the misspelling, Kunitaro san.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

kunitaro Proficient

kunitaro

Posted
Posted

Dear Hoanh san,

 

Thank you for your quick answer.

I just wanted to confirm the "deki"

"Nie-deki" or "Nioi-deki" is one of most important basic for Kantei.

 

To give good descriptions, you see the sword more,, and many people will enjoy kantei.

 

No "sorry" please :doubt:

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you Kunitaro san.

 

BUMP! I will be posting the NBTHK Origami tomorrow morning, so please post your thoughts, gentlemen.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

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