Japanese Dealers and Negotiation

[Derek]

For those of you who work with Japanese Nihonto Dealers, what is the typical polite negotiation process? Is it similar to Western negotiations? Other than the obvious language issues?

I guess what I am trying to say is, how does one negotiate a reasonable deal? For example, consider a typical deal in the US. I see a Nihonto that interests me from an American dealer. I send a short email expressing my interest, ask for availability, ask to make sure there are no fatal flaws, and so on. I can ask for references, more pictures, etc. Is this still considered a polite method for Japanese dealers?

Beyond that, what is considered polite as far as an offer? In the US, most people would start with a low offer. If I found a car that I wanted, and the dealer was asking $30,000, but I considered $25,000 to be a good price, I would start with an offer of $20,000 and haggle from there....

Please forgive me if this all seems obvious, but I have been curious. I know many of our amazing experts can answer this with the perspective that can't be found otherwise. Thank you ahead of time.

 

Derek

[Bugyotsuji]

Derek, it very much depends on the dealer, but some of them are more intelligent than we give them credit. They will be learning about you, every word you say and every gesture you make. Be the way you are. Often the second and third deal is smoother, if they like the communication from the first, IMHO.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I definitely agree with Piers, Derek. There are about a half-dozen Japanese dealers I work with regularly, including a couple who I don't buy from very often, & the better we get to know each other, the smoother things go.

 

For example, last week I pointed out to one dealer that he was showing an NBTHK Hozon paper for a sword, but had put in his eBay listing that the blade didn't have papers. He thanked me, & immediately corrected his ad, & the blade sold for at least $1000 more than it looked like it was headed for. He sent me an additional thank-you after the sale, so he definitely noticed. It will be interesting to see if he remembers that the next time I want to buy something from him.

 

If I do negotiate with a dealer on an item, I spend enough time to explain why I'm offering less than he asked, rather than just treating him like your hypothetical car dealer. And about half the time, he agrees. Much better for both of us to feel good about the sale.

 

Ken

[cabowen]

It does indeed, as Piers mentioned, depend entirely on the other party. Big, corporate dealers generally do not negotiate at all unless you are a long time customer and the item is very high end. Smaller outfits are more likely to show some flexibility. Typically, many Japanese aren't big on western style price dickering. It can seem confrontational which is something most shy away from. Some, who are experienced selling to Westerners, are not as off put by it due to their experience.

 

My approach was to ask if the price was firm and then, if not, ask them for their best price. If it was acceptable to me, I bought. If not, I said thank you and moved along.

[Derek]

Thank you very much gentlemen, exactly what I was looking for.

 

Derek

[Jean]

Beware that on EUrope, a few decades ago, Japanese were famed to bargain with Antique Dealers each Nihonto purchase, so that French dealers artificially inflate their prices in order to come on top of the bargaining process.

[watsonmil]

Dear All,

Orientals treat business as war.

 

... Ron Watson

[Soshin]

Dear All,

Orientals treat business as war.

 

... Ron Watson

 

 

Hi Derek,

 

Done most of my sales in person. Think war but with good green tea for all. :lol:

[benatthelake]

Derek:

 

Problem with internet so apologies if this is posted twice.

 

I am assuming you're in the U.S. I had the same questions several months ago. As we know, the exchange rate for $/Yen has been very favorable to U.S. buyers of Japanese goods. All things being equal, baring inflation, this amounts to a 20% favorable rate for U.S. buyers in comparison to this time last year. In other words, Japanese goods are already discounted! This assumes again prices in Yen have not increased to accommodate this dynamic. However, during the 8 month window I was watching, I did not see prices adjusted.

 

As a newbie to collecting nihonto, I narrowed my search (after reading and research) to a hand full of blades offered by a hand full of dealers. Members of this board provided guidance on the reputation of these dealers (based on their experience) as well as overall relative prices. As a general rule, some tend to price their goods higher, but overall, I could expect to ask for a 10% discount without offending the dealer as long as you are polite. I did ask for the best price (no surprise was 10% less), however, I was able to negotiate more...following what Ken suggested in outlining the reasons why I was looking to pay less. Other factors include how long the product has been in inventory.

 

Of course, I don't believe you'll find any real bargains with any retail dealer. But as several others have described, you should not buy to make money but to get a fair price for a piece you love and is aligned with your collecting strategy.

 

Just my thoughts...

Ben M.