What makes a tsuba more desirable?

[LakeBum]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Group-of-9-Japa ... 2ecb3bdc68

 

Here is a list of 9 Tsuba's. I have a few books on Nihonto but am confused as to what makes a great Tsuba. Granted this is a HUGE topic, is there a site or book that can point me in the right direction?

 

Are any of these from the auction an example of something good that I should look for?

I went with this as an example because there were a few to judge from.

 

Thank you for sparing some time for a new guy,

 

Jason

[Jean]

Nothing exciting

[Geraint]

Hi Jason.

 

You are right, this is a huge topic. If you have not already come across this site, http://www.japaneseswordindex.com then it is a useful starting place. Another good beginning would be to really look at the tsuba illustrated in some of the better books, have a look here for these, http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/about. When I say really look I do mean just that, take your time, come back to the images time and again, understand the way the tsuba was produced and the detail of surface and patination.

 

I suppose a simple answer to your question might be, great artistry, great materials and great execution but I realise that begs the question a bit. Some collectors really see greatness in iron tsuba while some prefer kinko. Whatever you chose to study Ebay is not likely to be the best place to see high quality stuff and a lot of looking will 'get your eye in' Sword shows and society meets are great because you can get a good look at what other collectors are enthusing about and there is nothing like study in hand, especially with someone who can point out to you what they see.

 

I am confident that many members will chime in with their ideas. Whatever you chose to do it will be great fun.

 

All the best.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Jason, Jean is correct that there is "nothing exciting" about that group of tsuba, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to be learned from them. Having an item in-hand is probably the best way to learn about it, at least if you don't have a lot of money out-of-pocket.

 

Like you, I'm still inching my way through learning about tsuba, & have about a dozen of them in my collection that I consider as "interesting." I found Jim Gilbert's Web-site on tsuba to be a good starting point (http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm, but you won't get much out of it if you just skim through the contents. I'll be interested to see what our ore experienced members have to say.

 

Ken

[Soshin]

Hi Jason,

 

The example you found on eBay is really bad. All the tsuba you linked either had serious quaily or condisition issues. I would check out the links discussed and the links located at the top of the page. Once in awhile good tsuba do come up on eBay of higher quaily listed by members of NMB that are tosogu collectors. They often list a notice in the sales forum.

[raven2]

Hi Jason,

 

I need to agree with Dave. Condition is very important. If you look at the tsubas listed, you will see that there is a lot of rust and much of the decorations have been damaged. Certainly artistry and execution are extremely important but if there is significant damage, even good pieces are badly compromised.

[LakeBum]

Thank you for the reply's! From a pure beginners look, all i see is old and hopefully real. I'm jealous of the guys on the west coast with clubs. I'm stuck in the middle of corn and bean fields, waiting for the show in Chicago this spring.

 

The more I learn, the more I find out juts how much of an art form it is to see what you have.

 

Again, thank you all for your time

 

Jason

[Jean]

Jason,

 

The only thing you have to develop is a sense of aesthetic and be able to spot quality.

 

Do you find aesthetic or quality in these tsubas?

 

You must look at the "for sale" section or go to Commercial sites and look at tsuba, you will see quality and aesthetic. Look at the requested price for each, and you will begin to learn aesthetic and quality. After that, you will buy what you like. Nothing is cheap, it will cost you at least a couple of hundred to get a basic one.

 

Avoid above all cheap flashy ones, they will be Chinese fakes.

[Rich S]

What makes a tsuba desirable? Don't forget about the collector fashion factor; that is, what other collectors consider the "IN" type of tsuba that's "hot" this month. Tastes change in any collectible market; competition between collectors also plays a role in desirability and also price. One factor does remain constant - condition. Don't collect "fishing sinkers" :-)

 

Rich

[Pete Klein]

Everything on this site is excellent in it's category. Aesthetics are a subjective matter but these examples are pretty good again, in their own category:

http://tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/mn3_2_1.html

[LakeBum]

Those are some great looking tsuba. Thanks for the site link. Once I translated the yen to US dollars....I have really got to get promoted to principal for some more cash lol.

 

Jason

[raven2]

Those are some great looking tsuba. Thanks for the site link. Once I translated the yen to US dollars....I have really got to get promoted to principal for some more cash lol.

 

Jason

 

I usually just knock off the last 2 zeros. Not particularly exact but it does give you a ballpark figure.

[Brian]

Pete,

That's a ready-made wishlist right there.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

I know. It's a good place to see what things should look like. I want the Nobuie and the Ko Mino kozuka... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[seattle1]

Hello:

Well Jason you got some pretty good advice, I thought particularly from Dr. Stein. Specifically to your question, what makes a great tsuba, I would with some apology to George Orwell for a slight paraphrase point out: "In aesthetics, the worst thing one can do with words is to surrender to them." You can only really answer the question for yourself. Beware of all the canons of "good" or "bad" taste, the superiority of one group or another, one artist or another, for with tsuba what to collect - presumably that follows the question you posed - is very much an individual choice.

Do not adopt the tastes of others if for no other reason that there are so many "others". There is no universal rule or agreement as to what is good. It is easy to forget that with swords there have been hundreds of years of narrowing down from the output of thousands of smiths and various "schools" to some pretty generally agreed upon hierarchy of a descending order from the greatest to the ordinary, however for tsuba little strong scholarship, if any, antedated the work of Akiyama Kyusaku, d. 1936. As was also true for the typing of the gokaden for swords, the preliminary grouping of tsuba goes back no further than Meiji times. Few of the boundaries of groups, to say nothing of the ranking of individual makers, if they are even known, are firming in place today.

Collect what you like and what you come to like can be honed to some extent by exposure to the literature, particularly good illustrations from great collections with good reflective commentary on the individual objects. Meeting other collectors in regional groups or at shows and sharing views and appreciation of individual objects can be very helpful. Some collectors will focus on period, some on tsuba-ko or kinko, some on sukashi, some on signed or not, some on the "big ticket" stuff only, others on excellent tsuba that will not break the bank. Always remember that all boundaries in this area are in flux and no one person's opinion is supreme over all others. To get started I would suggest that you ask yourself if workmanship and technical expertise is the basis of the tsuba that interest you the most, or is it the aesthetic power or projection of the object? Only in the hands of the greatest makers do those two things combine. Each is worthy of admiration, but they are not the same thing.

For me personally the the greatness comes from the meaning of the design. I do not mean the "story" that so many tsuba display of some incident in Japanese history, the sort of things detailed in Henri Joly's LEGEND in Japanese ART, though they are loved by many, endless and fun to noodle out. I mean what did the devices on a tsuba, particularly on ko-tosho and ko-katchushi, mean to the samurai who carried that tsuba on his sword on a day to day basis? It is that evocation of sentiment of the times and the hopes and fears of the individual warrior that I find most interesting. But latch on to what interests you, what you find aesthetically pleasing. Our tastes are our own and no one's is superior to that of another. De gustibus non est disputandum.

Arnold F.

[Pete Klein]

As for me, "De gustibus non disputandum est—that is, there is no disputing against Hobby-Horses; and for my part, I seldom do"...

[kusunokimasahige]

It depends whether you can combine Wabi and Sabi and if you have eye for both.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

 

 

 

.

[nihonto1001]

If you are looking for specific attributes, it is a tough answer. It depends on the School, or Den. Certain artists and/or Den are known for specific attributes. You look for certain things from Kinko, other things from iron. Goto works are different from Tosho. You get the idea.

 

That being said, here are some rough guidelines that I use. I look at form, composition, execution and condition.

Form: The tsuba has to appeal to me aesthetically, or have some unusual feature that makes it special.

Composition; the quality of the materials used. In Iron, collectors look for toketsu or "bones" that indicate the quality of the iron.

Execution; refers to the intricacy of carving, or artistic merit. This is especially important in Kinko.

Condition: A good tsuba is in excellent condition. One must develop a feel for what normal patina looks like. Avoid repatination, excessive rust, wear, damage...

 

Den: More advanced collectors have favorite schools and look for that schools characteristics in their tsuba. Certain schools are famous for excelling at some attribute and because they made good tsuba. This is very important from an investment standpoint.

 

Hope this helps.

[LakeBum]

Arnold, that was really deep! Thank you for your insight, you guys have no idea how much this helps on my start into the study.

 

Jason