Mei for a maker

[Tiaan Burger]

A reverse challenge...

I am working on tosogu for a wakizashi and tanto, and have a couple of tsuba in progress as well. These things need to be signed and I need some help. My first name is Carel, Dutch for "man" (Karl, Charles, Carlos are other variations of the same). My surname, Burger means " citizen". My second name, Sebastiaan, means "Blessed".

 

I did the google translate and got this:

マン man

市民 citizen

 

Short enough to use on most of my work, but maybe too literal in translation? What do you think? Any advice will be welcome.

[Brian]

You wouldn't go for the meaning of the name, you would go for the phoenetic sound of your name, spelled out.

I assume you are Karel Burger.... " car-el bur-ger"

Hope someone can spell that out for you.

 

Brian

[Tiaan Burger]

Now I feel stupid! Chinese is pictograms, Japanese phonetic? Never too old to learn, thanks Brian.

If it is phonetic then Tiaan Burger will do.

[Gabriel L]

Trying to convert a western name into an acceptable kanji mei has many pitfalls. There is a reason katakana was developed to portray foreign names and words.

 

Brian is right that you would ideally find kanji that somewhat match your name phonetically – you wouldn't translate the meaning of your name. However, you simultaneously cannot ignore the meaning of the kanji, either; you want to pick kanji that have auspicious or positive meanings, not weird or negative ones. But each kanji can be read multiple ways, so you ALSO have to be aware of the multiple ways (in both sound and meaning) a Japanese person would likely interpret the kanji without context. Plus, some kanji make sense in names, and others just sound or look weird – this requires familiarity with Japanese naming. Finally, to convert Tiaan Burger into Japanese phonemes, you would probably have to use at least 5 syllables: TI-ÂN BA-GA-RU (there may be alternate ways of doing this, especially depending on how exactly your name is natively pronounced). That would likely map to up to 5 kanji. But most smith art names are two characters, or four if you include lineage names. Oh, and did I mention that Japanese doesn't favor names that begin with voiced plosives like B?

 

Sometimes it works and you can come up with some kanji that look like a name, can be pronounced in a way that matches a western name, AND doesn't make people look at you funny. Most times this is a fruitless goal... I've heard that westerners living permanently in Japan sometimes adopt traditional Japanese names with normal kanji just because it's much easier. And I've seen at least one or two cases where someone needing a mei adopted a traditional nijimei with no attempt at making it relate to their own western name. Honestly in your case I would probably do this.

 

I know katakana looks weird as a "mei" and isn't traditional, but it's another more practical option.

 

Anyway, sorry to be a "negative Nancy" about it. I've tried to do this for myself, as a hypothetical exercise, and I discovered just how linguistically thorny it is to attempt. I actually do hope someone here can come up with something clever for you! So good luck; but do be aware of all the requirements and wrinkles, and make sure to vet the results against native speakers who do not necessarily know what you are trying to do, to make sure there are no odd interpretations.

 

Regards,

—G.

[Tiaan Burger]

Gabriel, thank you for the advice. I have done some reading since my first post and it seems I have entered a linguistic minefield. :?

The alternative then seems to render my initials with a chisel and hope it does not spell "bad workmanship" :lol:

[Gabriel L]

  Tiaan Burger said:

Gabriel, thank you for the advice. I have done some reading since my first post and it seems I have entered a linguistic minefield. :?

The alternative then seems to render my initials with a chisel and hope it does not spell "bad workmanship" :lol:

 

"Linguistic minefield" is a good way to put it.

 

For what it's worth, I did make a very feeble attempt to do Burger as BA-GA-RU:

 

馬賀流

 

But that would probably be read more like Umagaryu, or maybe Mayoshiharu, which is just... bizarre. Actually it pretty much just doesn't work. Like I said, a feeble attempt. And it doesn't make sense in terms of its meaning, either – "horse congratulations style?"

 

I'll try Tiaan next for kicks... nah I give up.

[John A Stuart]

How about using 民 min or tami with the alternate meaning of Carel, strong; 勁 kei, tsuyoshi, takeshi. So your Go could be 勁民 Keimin. Strong citizen. John

[Tiaan Burger]

  Gabriel Lebec said:

For what it's worth, I did make a very feeble attempt to do Burger as BA-GA-RU:

 

馬賀流

 

But that would probably be read more like Umagaryu, or maybe Mayoshiharu, which is just... bizarre. Actually it pretty much just doesn't work. Like I said, a feeble attempt. And it doesn't make sense in terms of its meaning, either – "horse congratulations style?"

 

I'll try Tiaan next for kicks... nah I give up.

I laughed until my belly hurt!

 

Thanks for makng the effort.

Tiaan

[Tiaan Burger]

  John A Stuart said:

How about using 民 min or tami with the alternate meaning of Carel, strong; 勁 kei, tsuyoshi, takeshi. So your Go could be 勁民 Keimin. Strong citizen. John

 

Strong might work, as I do a lot of forging. Thanks!

 

Tiaan

[Toryu2020]

Tiaan -

You have the opportunity to use any name you want, do you have a nickname? An art name? An aesthetic goal that can be rendered in a single word? Many Japanese and Chinese artists retird from the world, took vows or became lay-priests and took the name if their hermitage EG; Sekishusai,Hakuryushi, Kanzan or Suiken.

 

Stay away from translation and stick to the heart!

-t

[Jean]

Tom,

[Tiaan Burger]

Thomas, I read your reply early this morning and thought about during the day, spoke to fellow artist who knows my work and what makes me tick.

I love working with tree themes, and remember reading about some revered trees inJapan in one of Pakenham's books. The feeling I always aim for in my work is peace and calm.

Before I put my foot in and commit some cultural or linguistic cime I think you guys might be able to help me choose.

 

Tree man 木 男 (ki otoko)

Ancient tree 古代 木 (kodai ki)

Old tree 古木 (furuki)

[runagmc]

Calm tree, strong tree,... or a mix - calm old tree, strong old tree, beautiful old tree ... maybe "quiet old tree". now that's a good one