No comments

[Jean]

Interesting point of view on different subjects by Tsuruta san:

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/news-from-aoi-art

[cabowen]

It has been known for some time that he (or someone close) does touch up and polishing on an amateur basis. He is in business to make money so it is only natural that he would seek a way to make cheap blades profitable.

[Brian]

I am sure that some are going to read that wrong, and think he is encouraging amateurs to polish swords themselves...... No. he is saying that the dilema is that there are no cheaper polishers or people willing to polish the lesser swords, and unless that changes, swords will get damaged or lost to deterioration. He is encouraging people to learn the proper way to polish, and is offering free courses in how to do this.

The controversy is going to be about the level or training and the fact that decent polishers need to learn sword kantei etc first.

It is a minefield, because the amateur polisher might damage that o-suriage Tadayoshi that is totally rusted and out of polish, but the professional polisher might never get to work on it either, and therefore it dies from neglect.

I don't have the answers, but at least he is trying to grow the interest in polishing and selling the cheaper sword market (mumei ubu wakizashi etc)

 

Brian

[Peter Bleed]

Jean,

Thanks for sharing this message.

There is no question that sword maintenance has to be rationalized. The costs and risk of sword servicing are too great. And as a result sword preservation is threatened.

No one wants to send a sword off for a year and half, pay the freight, get a polish and a saya, and then find out that it is not what we were hoping for. Likewise, we all have swords that are kind of nice but unworthy of costly service. In light of collecting realities, it makes little sense to risk a polish.

Collectors need support, help, and fair early advice. Likewise, the leaders of the field need to recognize that a range of services is necessary, and out there. Instead of insisting that there are only worthy polishes, and instead of simply castigating some polisher and assuring us that others are worth the extra cost, we should be helped to find the services that are right for the particular swords we are dealing with. Finally, we need more polisher and to do that we need more business for them - even while they are learning.

I think Aoi-san has done us a service

Peter Bleed

[Markus]

  Peter Bleed said:

Collectors need support, help, and fair early advice.

 

That´s true. What we need in the first instance is a way larger number of really knowledgable

and easy accessible experts outside of Japan who separate the wheat from the chaff, i.e. to separate art

swords from weapon quality swords. So from the point of view of preserving as many as possible (art) swords,

Japanese associations should try to think about educating more future experts.

[Ken-Hawaii]

  Quote

Collectors need support, help, and fair early advice.

 

Great idea, Peter, but how do you separate the the ones who can & will help from the Eric Roushes of the world?

 

Ken

[george trotter]

This "touch-up" polishing raises some points of interest for some members here.

Just speaking for myself, I like the idea of Tsuruta san commenting on the realities of sword collecting and preservation costs etc.

As one who has now focussed on WWII gendaito I am probably classed as in the "barely mentionable class" of collector. That's fine, but the issues of cost and preservation do come up for us as well.

 

I know that 99% of advice here refers to the high end art swords and thus the high end preservation standards....but for me, although I never buy a badly damaged or pitted blade I do have one or two with the light staining and "westerner's fingerprints" on them...so it is good to know that the Japanese sword world itself recommends a "touch-up" polish in these cases.

Of course, I am referring to RJT and the like...not original Gassan and Kurihara etc etc. which would probably demand high end excellence as they would be of major importance and value.

 

I consider RJT as both art and function, that is why I collect them, and for "people like me", the opportunity to preserve a sword I like (which high-end people would shudder to look at) is both a personal delight and also an act of benefit to art preservation itself.

I suppose the question is ...how much staining/fingerprints can be there for the "touch-up" polish to remove? I mean it refers to light staining/fingerprints only right, but how light? heavy?...also, can a light touch-up polish restore a WWII period sashikomi finish?

I'd be interested in the comments on this (maybe someone could post a pic or two on what level of damage can be "touched-up" rather than need a re-polish.

Interesting thread Jean, thanks.

Regards,

[John A Stuart]

I had a sword, George, that had a very light patina to it. No pitting. I figured that it would only need shiage, but, indeed it was determined by the togishi that shitaji was needed. I couldn't believe it. It was one of those swords that you think would have regained its' lustre with uchiko. You know, how we always think after a long period it would be restored using that alone. I didn't ask at which stage the shitaji was started, whether arato or binsui. Just wanted to mention that these touch-up polishes I've heard about may not be possible to do in a lot of cases and have proper results. I am skeptical about quick, cheap fixes. John

[george trotter]

I was afraid that might be the answer John.

Was your sword a "low-end" RJT or more "worthwhile" as an art piece and that is why the togishi decided it was worth a better effort to preserve it? I ask because perhaps the togishi would have happily done a "touch-up" if the sword was an RJT?

For a brief moment I thought that a touch-up was perhaps a reasonable way to improve my very nice RJT with tobiyaki and some muneyaki (see pic: dirty sword 3rd from bottom), but I suppose it depends on where RJT sit in the "appreciation table" of collecting in Japan?

If RJT are way down low in Japan (and my experience suggests they are of little importance there), then maybe the togishi will be happy to just do a touch-up? (can anyone comment on this?)

From my position, my RJT is better off being low down in Japan as if "of merit" then if sent it would "require" a more in-depth polish and thereby it would come back as a "different" sword...probably without the features I first liked when I acquired it (I have seen happen several times before). Again from my perspective, it is better to have a dirty sword with great features than a re-polished sword that has lost the features you originally liked.

Just thinkin'

Regards,

[John A Stuart]

Most people would call the sword I am talking about as low end. It was a Jumyo wakizashi, I think I got for $4500 or there about. Value was mostly in the koshirae, but, at the time I had a penchant for Jumyo and wanted it in top form. If I had, at that time a RJT sword that I felt the same about, would have done the same. It was done sashikomi BTW, however, I don't know if I could really tell the difference between that done during WW II or otherwise. John

[runagmc]

I would guess touch up jobs would only be done by most polishers when the foundation is already good (no low spots or waves, no bad lines or rounded over edges as far as yokote, shinogi, etc.) . In my experience, most Gunto don't have a great foundation polish, so...

 

In swords already having good foundation shape, maybe they would start with one of the later stones like komanagura or uchigamori, and go from there... but I don't think you could do much of a touch up without doing the shiage stages on the whole sword...

[cabowen]

Most reputable polishers won't do a "touch up" polish for several reasons: usually the foundation is poorly done and they don't want to mess with it (my polisher said his name would be attached to the polish and though he didn't do the foundation, who would remember that a few owners down the road?); also, there is usually some corrosion, small nicks, etc., that need to be corrected and that takes more than a little nugui.....

[Jean]

Agreed with Chris, at 95% at least, a trained togishi shall go through the whole process.

[Eric H]

The business with $ 400.00 Wakizashi or whatever else in these categories is very very marginal and without interest for Nihonto collectors and likewise for dealers. If a rusted sword merits a polish depends on its quality....a professional polisher‘s advice is requested and perhaps the opening of a „window“. To dictate a ridiculous price to a supplier by a client is all-around unusual.

 

In my understanding a „touch up polish“ reveals at least the features of a blade at a minimum.

 

Well I am skeptic on Mr. Tsuruta‘s project when he writes „If you like, our company will teach polishing methods for free. Needless to say, the skill level differs by each individual but if you could attend in serious manner, it is not difficult to gain income by polishing“...really?

Mr. Tsuruta usually overwrites the description of the swords on sale with „The blade was polished“ and rarely „The blade was polished by good polisher“.

 

just my opinion

Eric

[Stephen]

Rusted blades should be a red flag, i have had and helped others send the rusted blade to pollish in hopes of that hidden treasure,,,i believe they were rusted on purpose to cover kizu.

[Jean]

Right Stephen. I bought years ago a NTHK kanteisho rusted sue Mino Kanetsune katana. Once polished, 2 hagire. Fine blade nevertheless, sold to a Iaï martial artist. Since I buy only full polished blades. When unpapered, I have them submitted to Shinsa - hozon, as they are often O suriage.

[Jacques]

  cabowen said:

It has been known for some time that he (or someone close) does touch up and polishing on an amateur basis. He is in business to make money so it is only natural that he would seek a way to make cheap blades profitable.

 

You too....

 

http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/sword%20catalog4.html%20

[Jean]

Having experience it, it is possible to remove rust patches on a sword without going through all the polishing process. It is impossible when there are scratches unless they are very, very, very, very, very superficial....It depends also where these scratches are located (Hamon, hira ji, shinogi ji, mune).