kantei this !!

[Bungo]

Age: Pre-1600~1700

size:　3.12x3.08x0.2 inch.

 

 

milt the ronin

[Rich T]

Kyo Shoami. The design is reminiscent of Owari, but the hitsu-ana and seppa-dai both appear to be Kyo and the 3D modelling of the design led me to

 

Kyo Shoami.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[Pete Klein]

Inshu (Unshu) -- Sekishu, mid-Edo.

[Bungo]

the extension of the design up the edge of them rim is not typical of Kyo shoami works ? According to the paper, it's not a Shoami.

 

Unshu ?...........you got me there, Pete, haven't read up on it in depth to see if they are " related "......... so can't comment on that call.

 

By the way, tell us a bit more about your call, Pete...........save me time looking for the info which I don't have in my limited library anyway.

Thanks, boys..........

 

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

more pics............

 

 

by the way, other than it's a rope thing, what motif is that ?

 

milt the ronin

[Pete Klein]

Tochibata School, (part of the Sekishu (in Inshu) according to Torigoye). They did the rope motif as a mainstay. The metal looks Edo as it is compact without surface hammering marks. Just my take on it. I doubt there is any further design intent as this pattern was common in their work, assuming of course I am on the right course.

[Bungo]

Tochibata School, (part of the Sekishu (in Inshu) according to Torigoye). They did the rope motif as a mainstay. The metal looks Edo as it is compact without surface hammering marks. Just my take on it. I doubt there is any further design intent as this pattern was common in their work, assuming of course I am on the right course.

 

 

you are getting scary.........................

 

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

the paper will be a good translation exercise later on when I actually receive the tsuba with certificate..................

 

thanks you all for participation.

May be i should salute you ( wink, wink , shhhhhhhhuuuuuuu, no cat out the bag yet, keep this an inside joke), Pete, formally two months from now ?

 

milt the ronin

[Rich T]

ok, sorry everything is Shoami to me. Yes your right Milt, the mimi should not carry the theme. I missed that.

 

Is that as close as the papers get ?, I cannot make out the kantei. I can see it is Shoki Edo so early edo period.

 

Rich

[Bungo]

look through the fuzzy pic, you can see the description as rope theme, the measurement and the school attribution , of course as you mentioned.....early edo.

What I really want to know is what they actually say about the school itself at the middle of the certificate..

 

 

p.s. actually I saw one example of Kyo-shoami in Haynes catalog with design all the way to the rim, it's more like carved to the round, unusual stuff.

 

 

milt the ronin

[Rich T]

I am at work and cannot see the school on my monitor, maybe I need new glasses. The middle seems to describe the tsuba ? I can see the mimi description and Bori (carving) testsu ji etc.

 

I look forward to the answer. I will try more when I get home and can access the books

 

cheers

 

Rich

[Pete Klein]

Curran must be playing with the other kids these days as I'm surprised he hasn't jumped in on this. He brought the Tochibata to my attention several months ago.

[Curran]

Peter, Rich, Milt,-

 

I'm not quite dead yet. Just a bit overwhelmed these days.

 

Pete was spon on this one, and by the time I read the post he'd already nailed it down. Nothing I could add.

 

I do wonder if the current NBTHK would just chunk this up to Shoami. I took out my own suspected Tochibata (or Owari, but I still think Tochibata). I've seen several now and the iron has a packed quality to it, as if it were softer than I would expect of Seki-shu, but has been hammered or worked to a compacted state, yet not overly dense or brittle. It feels that it has give to it. Not sloppy or dirty like some Namban irons, but rather that it has been worked differently. Makes me wonder what else, other ratios might be worked into it.

 

One commentor put forth the theory that they were influenced by Portugese imported metalworkers. It is tempting to say "that must be it!", but I leave it open to further evidence. It does remind me a bit of some Spanish Toledo / Salamancan ironwork, so it is tempting to believe that.

 

Not everyone thinks Tochibata is a distinct school. Because of the general layout, I can see a Shoami call. But the consistency of seeing certain designs or design elements (not just the rope work) with this sort of compacted iron makes me feel that it is a distinct side school, at least during the 1600s. There seems to be a sharp dropoff in the quality of later pieces.