diferent bo hi on Koto Katana

[shibeni]

Hello,

I only noticed that one side (side which has full lenght bo hi on nakago) is more corroded (more in the end of nakago) than opposite, which is more brushed with clear horizontal lines . I also noticed microscope small holes in bright metal under habaki, where polisher finished polishing...it has also very small openings in bo hi area... A lot of activity on blade... very bright ko nie, ji nie, ashi, uchinoke in boshi, sunagashi...

 

Thank you,

Bojan S.

[Marius]

Bojan,

 

what are the dimensions - motohaba, sakihaba (looks very broad), moto- and sakigasane?

[shibeni]

Hello,

Thise are the dimensins of the blade:

Moto haba: 3 cm,

Saki haba: 2,3 cm

Moto gasane: 7.5mm,

Saki gasane: 5mm.

Nagasa: 68,3 cm

Nakago: 19,2 cm

 

Regards,

Bojan S.

[Marius]

Thank you Bojan.

 

This confirms that this is a very healthy sword, although in the pictures the blade looks like it is not tapering towards the tip at all.

 

But the fact that it is healthy is not enough to tell it is modern made (we cannot rule out this possibility, of course).

 

Chris, who is a very experienced collector, has stated that the jigane is too nice for Koto and that i makes him think shinsakuto.

Chris, did you mean the absence of ware or of activites?

[cabowen]

There are several things here that make me think anything other than koto-

 

the hamon seems later in size and shape, and the jigane seems too tight and without any sort of flaw common to koto. Not to say that there are not koto with beautiful, perfect jigane, but those that are are usually the top of the heap and not the sort of thing you would find on an auction from Japan for $5K...

 

Not being able to see it in hand makes any real determination impossible. It does appear to be a high quality blade; given the price and location, I would lean towards a modern blade. That doesn't mean it couldn't be earlier, but I think odds are it is later rather than earlier.

[Marius]

I guess that sums it up. Especially the phrase: "given the price and location" :-)

[cabowen]

Well, sometimes who and where the seller is located is a crucial part of kantei! That is something you won't find in any kantei manual but it can be vital....

[Marius]

How true

[shibeni]

Hello,

as blade has questionable age, but if I look only the style of hamon (gunome-midare) is it at least close to Bizen Morimitsu school? I can see also streight bo utsuri above the hamon..

Thank you for help,

Bojan S.

[Darcy]

I'm not exactly sure why you would scale the nakago so that there is a geometry mismatch between both sides, then ask a question about why some geometrical features do not match? Your scaling exaggerated the mismatch considerably, so I fixed it as best I could in 10 seconds and I've attached the results.

 

It looks more reasonable but it still mismatches.

 

This kind of mismatch can be for a few legitimate reasons, one being that the nakago was filed down on one side during shortening as has been stated above. One other is that some hi were left to terminate higher because of the presence of some horimono or bonji below them. What I don't like is that the hi in this case doesn't seem to be perfectly parallel with the shinogi throughout, but with hi you never know... they have been added later, they have been re-cut throughout the life of the sword, futasuji hi have been turned into bohi and even in modern times people are still altering hi.

 

In this case, about the nakago, you can also look at the shinogi going through the nakago, on the side with the early terminated bohi it is wider which would also agree with this side being filed more. Now, it should be the flip side from the mei that gets filed and this has been filed in the pattern of a tachi. That doesn't mean that it was a tachi or that it was signed or that it is legitimate, just that it agrees with the practice. The hamon also appears to extend into the nakago, you would be in a better position to judge this than us from a photo. These observations would agree with it being legitimately shortened.

 

The nakago does not seem to be substantially wider in kasane than the sword above the machi which would imply some lack of age as well. So maybe it's not ancient, or it's in really good condition. Either agrees with the observations.

 

Having just finished photographing a Shintogo Kunimitsu, a Norishige, and a Sadamune, the last two of which are Tokubetsu Juyo and the first of which is signed and Juyo.... I have to disagree with the phrase "_____ too good for koto" and you can insert whatever you like in that blank. I'd be cautious about throwing this phrase around. Well I personally wouldn't use it at all.

 

I agree though in general that this one has a bit of a new smell on it. Just I disagree with the generalizations used.

 

Sometimes this can just be a good quality older sword with a jazzy polish on it that is perhaps not considered appropriate and/or how it's photographed. With this one I don't know though, I don't think it is modern made but I wouldn't be surprised if it is Shinto.

 

So just don't be hasty. If you bought it already get it analyzed in the flesh by someone of good reputation, or several someones.

[Darcy]

the jigane seems too tight and without any sort of flaw common to koto.

 

Flaws are common in koto blades that have been used, abused, and repeatedly polished. Flaws are not there because something is or is not koto, the more a blade has been polished down, the more likely it is to show flaws.

 

In this case, the kasane demonstrates that the blade is healthy so one would expect it to not show many flaws if it was made well. So what we have is a demonstration of a well made blade, and very little polishing. So the argument becomes, is this koto or not based on the fact that it hasn't been polished very much?

 

That's not a strong data point to use to assess the age of the blade, it's more something to confirm other things.

 

For jigane being too tight, this is not at all too tight for koto blades. Again I can point to Aoe, Shintogo, Sadamune, Yukimitsu, Rai Kunitoshi, Rai Kunimitsu, Awataguchi, Nio, Ryumon Nobuyoshi, Yosozaemon Sukesada, and many other high level smiths of many schools and time periods in koto that have at times made tight jigane, in fact, tighter and definitely much higher quality than this sword.

 

I am attaching a side by side comparison with a Juyo Token masterpiece signed by Aoe Tsugunao to illustrate the point. The jigane is tighter, finer, more consistent and controlled. Also note the different geometry of the hi which gets at what I was talking about earlier, in particular the lack of border between hi and ji and hi and mune. That can be an artifact of polish as well as construction, in either case it points to the example sword being either newer or less skilled or both. Also to be logically sound I have to add, "or just different."

 

So I'm not disagreeing that the sword in question here is newer than koto, I think I agree. I just disagree with the methodology you're using to get to that conclusion as there are far too many counterexamples of high quality koto jigane with no flaws, being tight, etc., all the words you're using to conclude this one as a newer blade. This Tsugunao has only one flaw and it's a kirikomi.

 

I'd also note that the example blade here has a nice big flaw along the mune.

[Darcy]

I'd classify the hamon has gunome midare mixed with some notare.

 

In koto to take a stab at it, some Naoe Shizu look like this. The jigane would not be inconsistent with that either. Without a huge research effort, I just grabbed an example Naoe Shizu that has a mix of notare and gunome midare.

 

I think you should just send this in to Benson, get an opinion, and ask him to send it for shinsa.

[shibeni]

Hello Darcy,

I attached part where hamon runs on nakago. If I look through magnifying glass where hamon ends also starts small holes in metal like on nakago, but with no rust. It looks like there were some rusting proces before polishing this part..

Is there any expert who can examine the blade from countrys around Slovenia/EU ?

Thank you,

Bojan S.

[cabowen]

the jigane seems too tight and without any sort of flaw common to koto.

 

Flaws are common in koto blades that have been used, abused, and repeatedly polished. Flaws are not there because something is or is not koto, the more a blade has been polished down, the more likely it is to show flaws.

 

In this case, the kasane demonstrates that the blade is healthy so one would expect it to not show many flaws if it was made well. So what we have is a demonstration of a well made blade, and very little polishing. So the argument becomes, is this koto or not based on the fact that it hasn't been polished very much?

 

That's not a strong data point to use to assess the age of the blade, it's more something to confirm other things.

 

For jigane being too tight, this is not at all too tight for koto blades. Again I can point to Aoe, Shintogo, Sadamune, Yukimitsu, Rai Kunitoshi, Rai Kunimitsu, Awataguchi, Nio, Ryumon Nobuyoshi, Yosozaemon Sukesada, and many other high level smiths of many schools and time periods in koto that have at times made tight jigane, in fact, tighter and definitely much higher quality than this sword.

 

I am attaching a side by side comparison with a Juyo Token masterpiece signed by Aoe Tsugunao to illustrate the point. The jigane is tighter, finer, more consistent and controlled. Also note the different geometry of the hi which gets at what I was talking about earlier, in particular the lack of border between hi and ji and hi and mune. That can be an artifact of polish as well as construction, in either case it points to the example sword being either newer or less skilled or both. Also to be logically sound I have to add, "or just different."

 

So I'm not disagreeing that the sword in question here is newer than koto, I think I agree. I just disagree with the methodology you're using to get to that conclusion as there are far too many counterexamples of high quality koto jigane with no flaws, being tight, etc., all the words you're using to conclude this one as a newer blade. This Tsugunao has only one flaw and it's a kirikomi.

 

I'd also note that the example blade here has a nice big flaw along the mune.

 

Perhaps you missed this qualifier:

 

Almost too nice for your typical koto blade

 

And this one:

 

Not to say that there are not koto with beautiful, perfect jigane, but those that are are usually the top of the heap and not the sort of thing you would find on an auction from Japan for $5K...

 

And this:

 

sometimes who and where the seller is located is a crucial part of kantei!

 

There is much more to the methodology I employed to get to my conclusion than what you have picked up on....

[Jean]

Question: Naoe Shizu blades I have seen have masame or flowing itame in their hada which is consistent with the origin of the school. This one does not seem to have any.

[shibeni]

Hello,

I made better pictures of complete Hamon and Sugata. It also look's like to bemachi okuri for few cm..

Regards,

Bojan S.

[Tom Darling]

Also,  I believe you can see a mei on the tang shinugi, that has been filed over, but, not completely. Maybe?  Tom

[shibeni]

New Info from Nbthk winer Togishi making Kantei of this sword in hand..It's very well made Utsushi blade, copying Nanbokucho blade. Probably custom ordered from Meiji-Taisho period

Hada: Ko mokume, Ko itame, Chikei.

Hamon: Gunome midare, togari, Nioi deki,Yo.

Saki kasane: 0,49mm

Kasane: 0,68mm

Saki haba: 2,36 cm

Moto haba: 3,00 cm

Sori-koshi: 2,03 cm

Boshi: Midare komi, Ko maru

Nagasa: 68,2 cm

Yasurime: Kiri

 

Regards,

Bojan S.

[Darcy]

Send it for papers. Opinions and opinions are all opinions. Nice looking sugata. 

[shibeni]

Hello Darcy, I agree with you but I am somehow afraid to send it. Togishi gave me his personal origami but it is not the same as Nbthk Kantei papers, so I will try to send it in future..

Bojan S.