shibeni Posted August 7, 2013 Report Posted August 7, 2013 Hello, I came across Koto Katana blade with bo hi on both sides. Lenght is 70 cm and sori is 2 cm. Bo hi goes trough nakago with diferent lenght_ it is extended in one side. What kind of flow can be hide this way or there is some other explanations? Thank you for help, Bojan S. Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted August 7, 2013 Report Posted August 7, 2013 it's not the same sword, meguki holes are not at the same place! Quote
shibeni Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Posted August 7, 2013 Hello, it is the same sword, but I try to scale photograp to be aprox. the same size in photoshop...so deformtion apire. Regards, Bojan S. Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted August 7, 2013 Report Posted August 7, 2013 so in this case the bohi end is not where you put the red line Quote
Guido Posted August 7, 2013 Report Posted August 7, 2013 Not unusual, rather the norm with Suriage blades; there's some good info about this effect in the articles sub-forum by Paul Martin. Quote
Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Posted August 7, 2013 Thank you Guido for pointing out the Articles section (then again....you wrote a lot of the articles there ) Yes...it pays to check that section occasionally. This article translated by Paul Martin explains it: http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/articles/Suriage.pdf Brian Quote
shibeni Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Posted August 7, 2013 Hello, I am worried about diferent lenght of bohi, as on one side is longer than on the other.. Thank you, Bojan S. Quote
Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Posted August 7, 2013 Bojan, If you read the article..it will explain that. Brian Quote
shibeni Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Posted August 7, 2013 Hello, Thank you all for this helpful information! Bojan S. Quote
shibeni Posted August 8, 2013 Author Report Posted August 8, 2013 Hello , Is this also tipical process for o-suriage blades. This one doesn't have mei, probably original mekugi and mei was cut off completly? Why would someone preserve one side of nakago? I add some pictures of the blade. Thank you and best regards. Bojan S. Quote
runagmc Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 This one doesn't have mei, probably original mekugi and mei was cut off completly? Why would someone preserve one side of nakago? Yes, it looks like the original mekugiana has been removed. In the process of suriage, they would probably have tried to preserve anything of the original nakago that they could (even if it's just some yasurime or patina), as this gives a small insight into the swords age and origins... It's a nice sword... What do you know about it? 1 Quote
shibeni Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Posted August 9, 2013 Hello, Is there some good indication of Koto era blade. Nagasa is 70 cm, sori 2, 1 cm. motohaba is 3, 1cm, saki haba 2, 1 cm. Thank you, Bojan S. Quote
hxv Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 May be Koto Bizen blade? Nanbokucho jidai? Hoanh Quote
shibeni Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Posted August 9, 2013 Hello, Please, how can be correctly describe this type of hamon . Regards, Bojan S. Quote
hxv Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 Notare midare, I think. It's a bit hard to tell without more close up pics. Hoanh Quote
shibeni Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Posted August 9, 2013 Hello, I add some more closeups. I only got old Torokusho copy of the sword (which I posted under translate help topic..) from antique seller..It has very nice skin and from my opinion also good polish. It is also very masive and heavy, it should be a monster before o-suriage....possibly Tachi (original lenght of bohi preserved in tachi mei side?) Bojan S. Quote
hxv Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 I'm pretty sure the hamon would be classified as notare midare, judging from the pics. In the last pic you posted, the boshi is midare - a continuation of the hamon. This points to a koto sword. It's a very nice sword in good polish. Congrats! Edit: Torokusho is just a legal registration of the sword in Japan. It won't have any useful information such as hamon type, hada type, school/attribution. For those details, you would have to research on your own, and if you are so inclined, send the sword to shinsa afterward to see if your research is hot/warm/cold. Hoanh Quote
cabowen Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 JIgane is quite nice. Almost too nice for your typical koto blade....If I didn't know better I would be tempted to think it is a modern blade. Quote
Gabriel L Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 JIgane is quite nice. Almost too nice for your typical koto blade....If I didn't know better I would be tempted to think it is a modern blade. It reminds me of my Enomoto Tatsuyoshi I purchased from you in 2003/4, Chris. Quote
runagmc Posted August 9, 2013 Report Posted August 9, 2013 I have reservations like Chris. The shape is more saki sori than is usually seen on osuriage tachi (but not completely impossible) and it looks to be in immaculate condition, which begs the question "is this sword really what it appears to be at first glance, or is it a newer sword doctored to look like and old osuriage tachi? " I can't tell for sure... It would be interesting to hear what some others think... maybe we can learn something... Quote
shibeni Posted August 10, 2013 Author Report Posted August 10, 2013 Hello, Torokusho document is probably from around 50'?http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16522 if this explain enythig. At least was then allready mumei and hed 2 mekugi ana... Bojan S. Quote
kunitaro Posted August 10, 2013 Report Posted August 10, 2013 There is Torokusho without blade (accidentally or in back market). Some similar sword could be fixed for old torokusho.... Quote
cabowen Posted August 10, 2013 Report Posted August 10, 2013 Kunitaro san has the correct explanation I think- this sword is modern made to match the older torokusho. I posted this on the other thread before seeing this one...sorry. Quote
shibeni Posted August 10, 2013 Author Report Posted August 10, 2013 I understand tricks for money of some antique dealers and sword makers, but blade is still very well made and it is in perfect polish. Someone must be doctor swordsmith for Koto blades, which than sell them for the price of only polishing... I could understand someone had time and high goal to made and probably sell this sword for big money with not only to look like Koto, but also put lot of efforts on details....so to look and be priced like higher level Koto blade?...in this case swordsman probably didn't earn much... Bojan S. Quote
cabowen Posted August 10, 2013 Report Posted August 10, 2013 When you have few to no orders coming in (most smiths in Japan for the last 10 years or more), even a little income is appreciated.... Quote
Ian Posted August 10, 2013 Report Posted August 10, 2013 5k, unpapered, ebay, imaginative seller in Japan. What can go wrong ? Quote
shibeni Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Posted March 13, 2014 Hello again, I learn something from this mistake. I still want to ask what characteristics on the blade will in this case speak to old and which to new made blade. How is possible to recognize old work from new, which looks like old like in this blade... Thank you very much, Bojan S. Quote
runagmc Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 Sometimes it can be almost impossible to tell from pictures. It can even be difficult with the sword in hand... You can look for how much the sword has been polished - look for certain styles of sugata, hada (in ji and shinogiji), hamon, boshi, etc. - look for signs of use that might accumulate over the years... Things like that... Experience and study make it easier over time... The picture of mune doesn't look like the sword has seen much polishing... at least since suriage... I don't know for sure if it is old or new, but it looks well made either way... Quote
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