Where did you start?

[Herman the German]

Hi folks,

 

I only started reading more about Nihontos and feeling already a bit drowned in all the information which makes me wonder: where do I start? But instead of asking for direct advice, I would very much appreciate, if you would kindly share with me where and how you started to gather information.

 

I started up having a look on different swords I liked and found that I've got a -considering the stage of my knowledge propably rather "shallow" affinity for Bizen blades of the Muromachi era. But I might just wait till Mr. Postman brings me the facts and fundamentals of Japanese swords before I go any further.

[IanB]

Herman, The world of Japanese swords, tsuba and armour never really gets that much easier. The more you think you know, the more you find you don't. I started in the days when there was an abundance of swords in the UK, still relatively expensive when I think of the money I earned, but cheap by today's prices. I bought what I liked and what I could afford to buy - some good, many bad. For several years I could find nothing much written in English about my treasures but it didn't bother me too much because I had the swords themselves. When Basil Robinson published his book 'The Arts of the Japanese Sword' I began to study what he had written and gained a little knowledge that I have tried to add to as more and more information becomes available. I now only own about a dozen swords, (because I really collect armour) and almost all have unsigned blades. There is an opinion that they are bad swords because they are unsigned - that may be true but I would beg to differ. I don't know who made my favourites and although I have a good idea about some, it doesn't matter because it is the swords themselves I am in love with. Putting a sword in for shinsa will give me a name but that will only be an opinion expressed by people who know a lot more than me and won't make any difference to the sword itself. Many here always recommend a beginner buy books and study before buying a sword. In my opinion you will never learn anything about swords from books - you need to hold them, look at them in different lights and feel how they handle to learn. I would say buy a sword you know is real, and is one you like, then start studying it. It might not be the best sword in the world but you will learn far more with a sword in your hand than any amount of looking at pictures and reading descriptions in books.

Ian Bottomley

[Dr Fox]

Hi Fabian

I really like what Ian B has said because its right up my street. The standard advice is to not buy, until you have read enough to be able to judge a real blade. Now that's a long road to take I did, until I found the book references did not educate me, as to what I was supposed to see.

Knowing I was hell bent on getting a sword I cast my boat loose, and went to a Japanese dealer, I had my budget he had the stock, three hours later I was the custodian of a sword. It was now, and from there that I could appreciate where the art lay. I could study the blade, and its features safe in the knowledge it was guaranteed as the real deal.

Am I now able to boast an expert’s eye? No, but I am certainly now able to tell the difference from chalk and cheese. Yes I have an extensive library, and now the means to relate to it.

Denis.

[Rich S]

I got my first sword at a local gun show. A shobu zukuri Sukesada in perfect mounts with ensuite

Shoami (signed) handachi koshirae for $142. I bought it just because it was neat and old. I didn't

know squat about Nihonto then (still know very little).The sword was signed and dated, Bunmei something (I don't recall) circa 1649). I took it to a local militaria store who put me in touch with a wonderful guy (the late George Moody), who mentored me for years. After spending thousands on books and going to shows with him, I started buying more Nihonto. My second sword was a mint Ichihara Nagamitsu in late 1944 shin-gunto mounts. After that I was totally hooked and lost my mind to the study of Nihonto. Of course that price was over 35 years ago and I'm still a rank novice

despite studying and handling a zillion or two swords and having a library worth more than my

swords. Like it was said above - buy books, look at lots of good swords, hopefully have a good

mentor - then think about buying swords.

 

Rich S

[rkg]

Fabian,

 

Since I think I managed to make pretty much all of the mistakes possible when I started collecting, I don't think I'd recommend doing what I did when I started to gather information... :-)

 

FWIW, all this talk of buying a shelf of expen$ive books before buying anything else is all well and good, but they really aren't really very helpful in educating you about what you're looking at on a blade until you've seen a bunch of them in hand (though the facts and fundamentals book IMHO is and excellent starting point). So what I'd recommend doing sooner than later is finding a way to look at a large number of (preferably high quality) pieces, preferably with some knowledgeable people to talk to about what you're seeing. The books usually make a LOT more sense after you've seen the activities they are talking about in hand (think read, study pieces, re-read...). The easiest way to do that is often to travel to one or more large sword shows - not inexpensive, but usually cheaper than a starter piece, and you'll possibly get more out of it if you're diligent.

 

Good Luck,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[Herman the German]

Hello,

 

thanks very much for the replies so far! It's quite interesting how the approaches differ.

It's not only the craftmanship what appeals to me, it is just as much the history behind a blade. I rather buy an average blade which appeals to me and possibly has seen some action, than a top notch blade which was throughout it's long history more of a show off item.

But by all eagerness to buy, I don't want to search for a black cat in a dark room. So I will see where the book takes me, and I migh molest you with a few more questions then

[Brian]

It's not only the craftmanship what appeals to me, it is just as much the history behind a blade. I rather buy an average blade which appeals to me and possibly has seen some action, than a top notch blade which was throughout it's long history more of a show off item.

 

Fabian,

This is a very common opinion...held by many beginners. However, trust me when I say that it will likely be one of the first beliefs to go out of the window once you learn to appreciate good quality Nihonto.

A mass produced kazu-uchimon made during the warring periods is simply not going to do what a Rai or Ichimonji or Hizento is going to do for you.

Never mind the fact that what many think were swords carried by "samurai" were probably more likely carried by merchants etc. But this is an attitude that will change with appreciation of the finer qualities of Japanese swords. You don't have to buy swords to be able to look at them and learn from them. In your area there will be other collectors and dealers and museums...so you will have the benefit of in-hand experience before you have to commit to a purchase.

 

Brian

[paulb]

Dear Fabian,

you are very lucky being based in Liverpool. It is the home town of one of the best dealers in the UK, Bill Tagg of Liverpool Militaria. Bill has had some health issues recently and I am not sure how much time he now spends in his shop in Liverpool but He is extremely helpful and a very reliable man to deal with. He was a major help to me in my earlier days

Also you are within a stones throw of the meeting place for the Northern Token Soceity. Again full of enthusiatic people who will offer great help as you start.

Good luck on your road

Best Regards

Paul

[pcfarrar]

Bill Tagg's shop is only open for another 4 weeks and then he is retiring. He is planning to still remain a dealer but it will be online based through his website.

 

He will also attend militaria fairs etc.

[Shugyosha]

Dear Fabian,

 

Sword clubs are also a good place to begin learning as you will have access to a greater number of swords to view at first hand than might otherwise be the case. If you are based in Liverpool UK, you are not too far away from where the Northern Token Society holds its meetings: Manchester. Here's a link to their website - http://www.northerntokensociety.org.uk/

 

Best regards,

J. Johnson

 

Sorry to be repetitive, I've just read to the end of Paul's post.

[Herman the German]

Hello people,

 

Thanks again for your advice and opinions. I would be worried if my view of swords wouldn't change after time. It would mean that I'm not learning anything. Just came out of Bill's shop. What a great fellow he is and I was lucky enough to meet other people there as well. I propably learned more in an hour than by reading the last couple of weeks.

[cabowen]

There is much about Japanese swords that you can only learn from books, and much that can not be learned from books. You need both books and in hand exposure to swords to gain any sort of real understanding and knowledge. Good books are usually the best starting point due to the huge hump you face in learning an extensive, foreign, vocabulary necessary just to get past go.

[Chonmage]

Hey Fabian,

 

You already got a load of good advice.

Have you heard of Markus Sesko?

 

http://markussesko.wordpress.com/

 

I read his posts every now and then. Some interesting stuff. Free too.

 

Plenty of books as well. I only had a look at his ebooks over at lulu.com.

The writing seems rushed with some text related oddities, but the information is solid. Targets many areas and levels.

 

Good luck!

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

I think that young Ian B has good advice for beginners.

My first sword was bought in 1969 from the local gun dealer. I had just reached shodan at Judo and fancied a "Samurai Sword" to display with my certificate. I thought the sword, which cost me £9 (about 15 USD was a marvelous thing, but I bought Yumoto's book along with it. After a cursory glance at the book, I realised that I had bought a bone mounted tourist piece of junk and fortunately the dealer (obviously realising that I was a potential long-term meal ticket) returned my money. It was a time of many swords being available and I was able to study extensively. Joining To-ken Society of Great Britain was very benificial as I was then able to learn a great deal and handle many swords.

However, the best learning experiences happened when I began regular visits to Japan where the best was available to see and study. I was able to handle swords from both private and mueum collections including swords of National Treasure status. My membership of NBTHK from the earliest dates stood me in good stead and I was given lessons at Yoyogi. When Mishina Kenji the mukansa polisher came to live in the UK in the late 80's, we were most fortunate as we now had a real sensei who new more than any of us and who freely shared his understanding of Japanese swords and Japanese contacts. We began to organise sword shows in the UK and I began attending similar events in the US, principally in Tampa and San Fran.

Although I was running a business and raising a young family, Japanese swords remained a heady passion and they still do to this day.

My advice to beginners is to totally emerse yourself in Japanese culture by studing swords, kendo, sake drinking etc etc. It is not possible to understand these things on a half-hearted basis and you must take every opportunity to study and handle good swords. They say that life is too short to bother with bad quality cheap wine and so it is with Japanese swords.

Forgive the diatribe, I am going for a drink to calm down!

regards

Clive S

[Geraint]

Presumably a rather nice Burgundy Clive?

[Herman the German]

Hello,

 

thanks very much for the suggestions and the link! It's nice reading a bit of information in German as well. Although my English does the trick for most things, reading complicated stuff is still easier for me in German.

[Edit] Been back to Liverpool Militaria today for a little chat and I will get to see some more blades on Saturday. Facts and "Fundamentals of Japanese Swords" arrived today as well

*wohoo* looks like I can start diving in

[w.y.chan]

I went to Bill Tagg's shop in 1991 after hearing about it from a work colleague. I remember well when I first walked in Billy stopped talking to his friends and focused on me straight away asking what I'm interested? Even back then I had a sense of humour and said "Have you got any Ninja swords". Billy got very animated and said he has none but if I'm interested there is some in Shaolin World in Chinatown

Obviously I started off with something cheap and affordable to get the feel but even then I knew if I wanted something special I had to dig deep. As an IT engineer I got into the internet and started making purchase online in the 90s. I don't believe swords were cheaper 20 years ago and if you factor inflation it is actually cheaper now.