Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 I recently came across a notation on Aoi Art website indicating that the following Ichihara Ichiryushi Nagamitsu signature is quite rare: Bizen (no) Kuni (ni) oite Karasujo (no) shita Ichihara Ichiryushi Nagamitsu Saku Attached pictures show a Nagamitsu with the very same/similar signature that was restored in Japan many years ago and it is also dated Showa 19 nen 10 gatsu kichi jitsu. The reference to Karasu-jo in Japan is an interesting one. Karasu-jo is "Crow Castle" in Japan, also known as Matsumoto Castle, one of the oldest remaining flat plain castles in Japan with stunning black exterior. It gets its secondary name karasu-jo because it is black like a crow. My understanding is that this castle was used in Japan by Mitsubishi Corporation as an aircraft artillery factory, so it has great meaning both older historically in Japan and amongst WWII as well. I was surprised to see the notation reference about the rare signature. The notation on Aoi Art seems to infer that the signature might have been used more than once meaning that perhaps Nagamitsu was present at Karasu-jo for some time making more than one sword. Does anyone possess more information about why Nagamitsu may have been at Karasu-jo and whether there are other swords with a similar mei? In my many years of study this is the only sword I have seen like this. Thanks, Eric Quote
Drago Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 This signature is rare indeed. Check Richard Stein's JSI, he has one as well. What is even more rare is a date. Nagamitsu hardly ever dated his blades! One dated blade was published in Slough I think. About Karasu-Jo: It's NOT Matsumoto Castle! There are two Karasu-Jo in Japan, the other one being Okayama Catsle (Nagamitsu worked in Okayama). However, this is not read as "Karasu-Jo" but rather "U-Jo" (written with the same kanji though). Thanks for the pictures. I'd loke to have that one. 1 1 Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 My first thought as scrolling down was the rare mei, then I saw the date! Wow - I have seen so few of those that frankly, I can't specifically remember seeing one. Very nice! Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Posted July 22, 2013 Thanks Tobias, Can you please confirm about the U-Jo and how you know it is meant to be this way for this mei? This kanji was translated by a very well known expert in the Japanese nihonto field as "karasu-jo" and not "u-jo", so I am curious about this mei reading now. Please let us know your thoughts. (Not disagreeing with you, just want to know more info on it - thanks!). Joe, Yes, indeed, very rare on the date part. More info: this sword was restored in Japan several years ago by a 1st prize winning polisher Matsumura-san with sayagaki by Tanobe-san, custom shirasaya with horn inlay, and new shakudo habaki. It also has the original koshirae with tsunagi holding everything together. All of the fittings have matching numbers and the locking mechanism works too (attached a bit of blurry pic). Thanks, Eric Quote
Drago Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 Can you please confirm about the U-Jo and how you know it is meant to be this way for this mei? This kanji was translated by a very well known expert in the Japanese nihonto field as "karasu-jo" and not "u-jo", so I am curious about this mei reading now. Please let us know your thoughts. Well, that is what it says on Wikipedia. Both castles are written using the same kanji. The one in Nagano is read as karasu-jo, the one in Okayama as u-jo... Since I don't know any Japanese people from either area, I'll have to trust Wikipedia on this one... And about that "well knows expert": karasu-jo is the obvious reading, but the u-jo reading is something you probably only know if you've ever been to Okayama... One more question: Is there a number stamped on the mune side of the tang? If so, what is it? Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Posted July 22, 2013 Well, that is what it says on Wikipedia. Both castles are written using the same kanji. The one in Nagano is read as karasu-jo, the one in Okayama as u-jo... Since I don't know any Japanese people from either area, I'll have to trust Wikipedia on this one... So I gather you are connecting the u-jo reading with Okayama due to the connection of Nagamitsu at Okayama prison, correct? I guess that makes sense and I didn't think of that at first. One more question: Is there a number stamped on the mune side of the tang? If so, what is it? There are no numbers stamped on this blade. Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Posted July 22, 2013 Hi Stephen, More pics definitely coming. Been busy with lots of family stuff the last few months (some new additions to the family), so haven't had much time for photography. I think since so many people are asking for photos, I will just add them here if Brian does not mind a ton of photos on this thread. Disclaimer: I am not a very good photographer, but I think you will all be pleased with what you see. Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Posted July 22, 2013 Looking on Rich Stein's website, the example he gives that is similar to my blade is the following: Example "O.": Bizen (no) Kuni ..Karasu.. Ichihara Ichiryushi saku Made in Bizen Province near Karasu Castle by Ichihara Ichiryushi Dated December 1943 - (Nagamitsu blades are rarely dated) Just a note that he is stating "karasu (jo)" here as well. If Rich is on the forums, perhaps he can weigh in on my original question about the castle - whether we are talking about U-jo or Karasu-jo - and what purpose Nagamitsu may have had there during that time in the war. Nevertheless, it is interesting to see another blade dated the same as this one though! Quote
Drago Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 Rich is here (but I can't remember his username ) As for what the castle mention in the mei might mean: It doesn't just say "jo", but it says "jo no shita" (in your your first pic that kanji in the middle where there seems to be s small space) which can be interpreted as "under the castle" or "in the castle's shadow" The Bizen sig (and considering that yours doesn't have number) is probably his "private signature", in other words used not for gunto made for the military but for private purchase blades. I know yours is in Gunto mounts, but it could still have been privately purchased, not made for the military. I think his workshop might have been near the castle, that's why he used that signature. The sword on Rich's site is dated Dec 43, yours Oct 43. Unfortunately, Rich didn't include the date in his pictures. EDIT: Show 19 is 1944, not 1943 If anyone has Slough or other reference books: I know that an oshigata of a dated blade was printed there. But this is just my opinion. There is hardly any information available on Nagamitsu besides what Rich already wrote on his site. Quote
Lee Bray Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 Had Slough's and camera at hand, so - Quote
Drago Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 Had Slough's and camera at hand, so - Awesome! So we know of three dated blades, from Dec 1943 and Jan+Oct 1944 (or Dec 44 if there was a mistake). EDIT: This is odd: I don't doubt your signature, but did you notice the difference in writing the dates? In the Slough example he uses the formal kanji of the numbers and SAI for year, but on your blade he uses the simple form. I wonder if there is any meaning behind that. Quote
Rich S Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 Great find. The Nagamitsu like yours on my site is an oshigata sent to me, as was the translation. So I can't verify the translation is 100% correct or interpreted correctly. I think (?) the translation and oshigata were sent to me by someone on this board but many years ago (Don't recall who Rich S 1 Quote
cabowen Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 So I gather you are connecting the u-jo reading with Okayama due to the connection of Nagamitsu at Okayama prison, correct? I guess that makes sense and I didn't think of that at first. Where did you get your info that Nagamitsu was connected to a prison? I think it is most likely the case that these dated examples with a long mei were blades made to order for a private party, not made for the military. The mei and workmanship seem at least a level above the usual military work. Quote
Drago Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 I think it is most likely the case that these dated examples with a long mei were blades made to order for a private party, not made for the military. The mei and workmanship seem at least a level above the usual military work. I've "seen" a few Nagamitsu blades and my impression is that the longer the mei is, the higher the quality is. Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Posted July 22, 2013 Thanks Rich and Tobias for your additional information and details on the subject matter, much appreciated. Where did you get your info that Nagamitsu was connected to a prison? Greetings Chris, I was merely hastily pointing out of the past belief and association (albeit proven incorrect as we now know) of the Nagamitsu/Emura/Okayama Prison connection and tying that as to whether the kanji was being read as U-jo (associated with Okayama area) as opposed to Karasu-jo. I realize that there is substantial information now available to contradict the original assertion of the prison connection and it has been proven false as noted on Rich's site in the following link (inclusive of your research on the subject as noted within the page as well): http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nagamura.htm For sake of clarity and to avoid the usual debate or perpetuation of the false prison connection, I should have left the word "prison" out of my original statement and simply said "Okayama". I stand corrected in my original confusing word choice. Thanks, Eric Quote
cabowen Posted July 22, 2013 Report Posted July 22, 2013 Ichihara Nagamitsu was a resident of Okayama so I think it is only to be expected that he signed this sword as he did....As you note, there is no prison connection. Nice sword! Commendable that you spend the time, effort, and money to do it right. Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Posted July 22, 2013 Thanks Chris, Yes indeed, took me three years of searching to find this blade and 1+ years for restoration. Definitely worth the wait and the "hunt" was quite fun too. Quote
mywei Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 Hey guys, There is a Nagamitsu blade on Aoi Art at the moment where it is mentioned that the mei "Bizen Kuni Oite Karasu Jyoka Ichihara Ichiryushi Nagamitsu" is quite rare/珍品. http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-nagamistu-saku Quote
cabowen Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 I think we are getting a little marketing speak in that description... By the way, Okayama jo is also known as Ujo, the alternate pronunciation. This is clearly mentioned here: http://www.y-daikun.net/okayamajou.html 「烏城」(うじょう) which is a tourist site from Okayama city.... Anyone else think that sword has a crack in the nakago on the ha side, above the upper mekugi-ana? Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 Anyone else think that sword has a crack in the nakago on the ha side, above the upper mekugi-ana? Perhaps the device (On my iPad, zoomed in) or the resolution of the pics, but I don't see it. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 As a resident of Okayama may I say that Ujo (as many have mentioned above) is the only way anyone around here pronounces it. I would not expect people from Tokyo or other regions for example to know this particularly. Just to be on the safe side I phoned my sword teacher who is from good Okayama stock, head of the local branch and on the national committee of the Nittoho and he said it is and always has been Ujo. (To read it Karasu-jo, you would be emphasizing the meaning to someone unfamiliar with the single sound U, so in that sense it is not 'wrong' per se.) 1 Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 Sorry Chris - I thought you were referring to this sword. Quote
george trotter Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 I can well remember walking around the gardens below Okayama jo (1980) and remember being told it was known as Karasu-jo...also the use of U-jo rings a bell too (can't rememebr details now though). Jo no shita reads (for me) "below the castle". The claim about Nagamitsu working in a prison comes I think from the very old confusion which said he and Emura, warden of Okayama Prison, were the same man...they are not connected. I had a Nagamitsu once: mei "Bizen Nagamitsu" no date, no numbers...the kanji were the same, but not quite so "curly" as this. nice find. regards, Quote
John A Stuart Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 Yes George, Kōrakuen is very nice and you get a nice tea just outside the gates overlooking the river viewing Ujo. John Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 Here is one with a shorter name: http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00148.html According to the blurb, the prison governor, Emura Shigetaro established a forge within the prison (at Sakura-bashi back then), where many gunto were made. His own blades he signed either with his name or with the artisan Mei Nagamitsu, and he is known in these parts as 'Kangoku' Nagamitsu. (Did someone authoritatively debunk this at some point?) Incidentally there is an extraordinary story about the execution ground at Sakurabashi which I heard here maybe 30 years ago which I will tell if there is interest. 戦時中、岡山刑務所内には大規模な公認の刀剣製作工場が存在した。同所長の江村繁太郎氏は勤務の傍らに自らも作刀し、また、受刑者にも本鍛錬軍刀を製作する技術を指導し、多くの軍刀を製作したといわれている。所謂、「監獄長光」「刑務所長光」 と称される一原長光の軍刀である。銘振りは多岐に及び 「一原長光」「備前長光」「長光」「市原一龍子長運斎江村長光」「江村作」「江村」などとも切る。 PS Sakurabashi is just downriver of the castle. Quote
Rich S Posted July 23, 2013 Report Posted July 23, 2013 Piers - Does the author give any documentation or source of his information about Emura/Nagamitsu? I don't read Japanese well enough to tell. Chris B.- We corresponded about this a lot in the past. Can you shed any light on this? It goes contrary to everything that I've read and that folks have sent me. Thanks Rich S Quote
Eric Santucci Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Posted July 23, 2013 As a resident of Okayama may I say that Ujo (as many have mentioned above) is the only way anyone around here pronounces it. I would not expect people from Tokyo or other regions for example to know this particularly. Just to be on the safe side I phoned my sword teacher who is from good Okayama stock, head of the local branch and on the national committee of the Nittoho and he said it is and always has been Ujo. (To read it Karasu-jo, you would be emphasizing the meaning to someone unfamiliar with the single sound U, so in that sense it is not 'wrong' per se.) Piers, thanks for that info and for contacting your teacher, much appreciated! That pretty much answers my original question about the U-jo vs. Karasu-jo and the nature of Nagamitsu's presence around there. I had originally thought that he was perhaps inside the castle forging swords and doing something interesting, but it appears the consensus is that he was just forging swords in and around where he lived by the castle. Makes sense. Interesting about the info you found via the blurb on Tsuruginoya too. Experts will have to weigh in on that for us. Gents, Regarding the Aoi Art blade - I see what Chris is pointing out in the blade. Typically Tsuruta-san will notate large flaws though (and if the nakago were cracked that would be a huge flaw). Someone can always email Tsuruta-san and ask him about it if there is interest in that particular blade; he will provide an honest answer. Thanks to everyone for their research and comments on this thread, it is has been very enlightening! Quote
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