a question for the sword people on the list

[Bungo]

suppose the sword has hagiri just above the hamachi ( so it is hidden under the habaki )..........

what if the polisher move up the hamachi and " reshape " the move up area to blend in with the rest of the nakago, re-patinate etc.........

do we still have hagiri on this sword ?

If yes......... why ( since it's no longer on the ha, then by definition it's not a HA giri ) ?

 

Is there a term for " something-giri " on the nakago ? nakagogiri ?

 

Milt THE ronin

[Brian]

I would be interested in comments about this too.

Not that it would save this one. An otherwise nice waki that would have polished well. But now it serves as a good reminder that cheap is not always cheap

Hides nicely under the habaki, but is glaringly obvious on both sides without it.

Some swords are nice enough that they remain good items in a collection in spite of hagire, but this one doesn't make it that far.

Anyways..sorry to hijack Milt's thread.

 

Brian

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Really an interesting question.

My 2 eurocents :

Firstly, depends on the dimensions of the Hagiri after the moving.

I'm not sure it can still be considered "Hagiri", but likely the functionality

of the blade is still affected, even if the defect is now in the Nakago.

On the other hand, the move will likely reduce the dimension of the defect.

Anyway that area concentrate a lot of stress and I'll felt not comfortable

in fighting with such a blade. As Hagiri are considered fatals because of

the lack of functionality of the blade, I think the move would make only a

slight change in the matter if the reduction in dimensions of the defect is

not total or very high. More : the tang rusts, the blade (should) not.

How about its future ?

Waiting for other feedbacks because it's a very interesting matter...

[Ted Tenold]

The essential question for hagiri is structural integrity. If, by machiokuri the hagiri can be fully removed, then it is no longer a structural problem. If it cannot be *fully* removed, then it remains a consideration because the hagiri can propogate to a catastrophic failure. How much of a consideration is dependant on how far out of the stress zones the hagiri has been moved. Obviously down at the end of the nakago there's little chance of a problem, but by that time it's pretty much an osuriage job anyway.

 

It is an interesting question though as most folks wouldn't be inclined to look for hagiri on the nakagoha. Heck, could you even see it through patina?

 

The area could be machi okuri'd so that the remaining hagiri was relocated into the nakago area, annealed with a copper block, rewelded, filed, repatinated, and on an especially good sword, that might likely be an acceptable fix to save the blade and it's length. Too many factors for just one answer though, and really it all comes down to the quality of the sword in question.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Ted, very explicative as always.

Thanks.