Tsuba on Aoi-Art, just WOW!

[Drago]

Hi,

 

this is for sale on Aoi-Art. http://www.aoijapan.com/tsuba-toshihide-kao-deer

(wasn't sure if I should post the pics, feel free to do so.)

 

Usually I don't really like Tsusba showing animals or people, but this one is just awesome! And the description rightfully states "This Tsuba is a masterpiece."

 

I especially like the moon on the reverse, it looks like a photo!

 

Damn, if I had the money!

[ROKUJURO]

Oh deer, that one is really nice!

[kaigunair]

That is deer-ishious! A lovely piece indeed...That school had really accomplished masters and students....

[Pete Klein]

Look carefully at the fukurin and adjacent plate. Oxidation big time.

[Antti]

I havent seen a tsuba like this before. I really like this!

 

So is the center made of brass? I mean is there a brass plate covering the center on both sides over an iron core?

[Kevin Adams]

Personally, I find the overall design quite stiff and disjointed - the tree looks unnatural, the gold branches and grass on the omote seem awkwardly rendered, and the rock on the ura seems to be melting into the stream (which appears to have been rendered hastily). Unless of course the rock is actually a waterfall, in which case it still looks a bit odd...

 

The overall look of the brass ground is homogenous and uninteresting, and the composition lacks depth or perspective. In addition, the various design elements are anchored awkwardly to the wavy "frame" around the scene (which serves only to distract from the monotony of the scene). I believe this contributes greatly to the lack of depth in the design.

 

The contrast between the moon and clouds is notable, though. While the work seems competent enough, it doesn't scream "masterpiece" to me like some works of the Tanaka school.

 

That said, I'm not familiar with the work of this artist, so I would be very interested to compare this piece with his other works, and learn a bit more.

[Curran]

+1 Peter

+2 Kevin

 

Thanks to a lurker on the board, in Tampa saw several top quality pieces from this school.

Many thanks to him, as it was a pleasure. Had there been proper time, I would have liked to seen the many others he had with him at his table.

 

This Aoi Arts one has no appeal for me.

Years ago I think Mike Y and Cyrus has a Juyo one for sale.

[kaigunair]

I wonder if the brass background actually has a texturing that's not coming out in the photos?

 

Does the oxidation indicate the fukurin isn't original or is this just a condition problem?

 

The theme reminds me of scroll paintings; not crowded like an omori wave tsuba but lots

of space so it isn't about the deer but about the forest....

[Brian]

Just my personal opinion....everyone is allowed theirs. But doesn't do all that much for me either.

Reminds me of a certain eBay seller's goods that look flashy at first, until you look at it closely and see that there really isn't all that much fine work. Not saying it isn't a good tsuba, but I don't see all that much value in this particular one.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

Fukurin looks original. I am wondering if it's oxidation of the plate but the fukurin is textured? This tsuba is constructed in layers and perhaps the middle is of iron and has areas of rust.

It's a problem as you can't restore it readily. This is one which really needs to be seen in hand however, as it is in an auction there is no return of the item so it's a risky purchase, IMHO.

[Ford Hallam]

Pete,

 

you surprise me.... :?

 

What we're looking at isn't a fukurin at all. In fact this is a fairly characteristic feature of Tanaka school work.

 

The steel rim is actually solid (and an original and major part of the tsuba) , the brass/shinchu may be either inset plates or a separate solid inset plate. Examining the nakago ana would resolve that issue.

 

The rust on the rim is not really serious and in the hands of a competent restorer is not a matter for concern.

 

The craftsmanship is well above average but certainly not worthy of the 'masterpiece' label. Having said that I think this is a pretty decent example of Tanaka School work.

 

Aesthetically speaking it is fairly typical, the only real criticism I might offer is the 'heaviness' in the way the deer is rendered. Apart from that I think it's a fine piece of work. Every other detail is very well carved and finished. I say this trying to be objective and keeping my own preference or tastes out of my considerations....after all, who cares what I like

 

As to the price, it's ultimately worth what someone pays for it. :D At $5000 you can't get it replicated today...

[Pete Klein]

Ford -- then why is there a rust transition point at 6:30/7:00 in the above image between the rim and the body of the tsuba? If the rim (fukurin) was actually integral then both would be rusted. Also, there is an apparent air space between the two. Perhaps the rim is accomplished in another, non-ferrous metal, perhaps sivler? An expanded view:

[runagmc]

Pete, I think the line you refer to is where the edge has been slightly rolled over and hammered down. What do you think?

 

Edit- Now that I re look, I'm not so sure... maybe two different pieces of metal all together... a very thin outer rim...

Edit again-I'm not sure... looking at the edge it looks like iron which would make me think the fukurin may be false, and just a carved feature. It appears to have some rusting as well...

 

One things for sure, I need to get my thoughts together better before posting... :D

[runagmc]

From this pic it looks carved to me...

[Ford Hallam]

Pete

 

this type of frame, with nunome-zogan 'nashiji' and an incised outermost edge, is a fairly standard feature of the Tanaka school, Tanaka Kiyotoshi (this tsuba's maker's teacher) in particular. I don't think there's any need to speculate about the possibility of the fine edge being a later addition when it's quite common on Tanaka work.

 

This also highlights the shortcomings of critiquing a work without having a good grasp of the schools traits and style. Kevin provided a decent analysis but it didn't take into account the fact that this style is fairly common in the Tanaka school oeuvre. A very elaborate frame with an irregular inner edge etc. and a design/composition simply made of of a few finely rendered elements. Not so much a painting more of a shorthand image intended to evoke a specific mood. This particular style is expected to be 'flat'.

 

Consider woodblock prints and how they differ from say, Chinese landscape painting. It would be an error to judge either by the accepted 'rules' of the other.

 

Compositionally it is exactly what I would expect from a student of Kiyotoshi. Personally I find it to be a carefully crafted piece and with a lot of fine detail that is easily overlooked. It's critical to put aside one's own personal preferences when trying to asses the relative qualities of work like this and knowing what traits and features to look for is a start towards objectivity.

 

Here are 2 classic examples of Tanaka Kiyotoshi's work for comparison as well as one by Morikawa Toshikage, a leading student of the school. I've borrowed these images from the MFA Boston's excellent on-line collection.

 

[Pete Klein]

Yes Ford, I know. I've seen a few. Never mind. My mistake.

[Brian]

Whilst agreeing with the attribution and traits of this school, I still don't see a good explanation of Pete's observation. If integral (and I assume it is) what has caused that "fold" that we are seeing, since it doesn't appear to be any part of the formation of the mimi?

 

Brian

[Ford Hallam]

Brian

 

it's simply carved to look like that. If you examine the rims of the examples I posted you'll see a few variations of the same feature.

As I explained to Pete;

this type of frame, with nunome-zogan 'nashiji' and an incised outermost edge, is a fairly standard feature of the Tanaka school,

 

I would also point out, in case some missed it, that the brass/shinchu ground is in fact quite extensively and subtly textured. There's more variation around the base of the tree and other plants and stream as well as texture used to enhance the 'shading' around the edges of the clouds. Examining the tree you'll notice 2 tones of gold in foliage and very fine modelling of the bark. Similarly the stream is very delicately carved, and inlaid in silver, with the rock also having pale gold touches to the shibuichi and a different gold used to pick out the leaves and growths.

 

I suppose I might add now that the other important aspect of judging quality, apart from knowing a particular school or artists traits etc. , is to learn to really see what's in front of us. It takes time and a very good visual memory of relevant work to begin to accurately 'read' this sort of metalwork. It might be trite to say; 'the more you look the more you see' but it happens to be absolutely true :D

[Adrian]

 

Here are 2 classic examples of Tanaka Kiyotoshi's work for comparison as well as one by Morikawa Toshikage, a leading student of the school. I've borrowed these images from the MFA Boston's excellent on-line collection.

 

 

 

I must confess that, to my untrained eye, the composition and the craftmanship of this one looks WAY better then those of the tsuba discussed in this topic. Particularly the composition.

[Ford Hallam]

Adrian

 

well we'd expect it to be much better This is Tanaka Kiyotoshi, the most celebrated artist from this school and the teacher of the maker of the discussion tsuba. It's probably safe to call this one a masterpiece, but it's very important to recognise that not every piece made by a BIG name is necessarily a masterpiece. I would hazard a guess and suggest that were this tsuba available on the open market it might fetch $50 000...or more.

 

I would add, though, that while this Kiyotoshi is a far better composition the workmanship is not that much finer really, imo.

[Moley]

You Guys are "AMAZING", such in depth knowledge. How are we "ordinary Mortals" supposed to learn all this stuff?

[Pete Klein]

Apply.

[TosoguCz]

- the tree looks unnatural

 

Kevin, the whole motif is stylized so why are you looking for the real looking tree?

[Kevin Adams]

...the whole motif is stylized...

 

I agree with you on this point, but it doesn't "look" like a tree to me - even a stylized tree should imply an awareness of "tree-ness", and this particular composition just looks awkward...