its raining gendaito!

[David Flynn]

Always only takes a few to Bugger it for everyone.

[Stephen]

Maybe their made in Aussie land?

[David Flynn]

No Stephen, then they would be perfect.

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have been watching these sales on eBay by the same seller in CA as I need to pick up a new traning sword at some point. I had a feeling the signatures were false but it always good to get confirmation of this fact. Thanks NMB.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[raiden]

I know that there is an investigation going on right now, from a bad dealer that was recently arrested for "fake" torokusho and exporting bad poorly made gendaito with gimei names to the US (it was on Japanese TV). If Yamaguchi is selling blades like these, he should be careful.....I saw many he listed on Ebay before that were exact copies of mei from the gendai listed in the Shinshino Taikan. Thats why I always recommend to buy from a reputable person or certified items....but many people bought these blades from him on ebay.......

[Jean]

Fully agreed Mike

[george trotter]

I came late to this thread.

As Dave said, the last time these same class gimei came up (with the same seller) I was scratching my head because the of the 4? blades then 1 or 2 had differences in the nakago shape and yasuri etc and one was signed "by" a maker I knew and the kantei was conceivably in line with his work. I did come to the conclusion that they were modern fakes (or iaito signed with fake mei) after discussion...but this time they are all (to me) clearly fakes of known smiths....since there is no disclaimer about the genuineness of them I suspect they are intended to deceive.

 

I don't know the seller and have nothing against him, but this is not a good development for future gendaito collectors...I wish he'd call them iaito or stop the gimei part of it.

Just my 2 cents...

[takakage]

Often cheap tools for iai with long nagasa . As a good friend says to me, a good sword has a good price.....

[Kajihei]

This may be the case MikeY. saw on TV.

 

Aoki Naritaka, who operates Taikeido (my neighborhood katanaya-san!) was arrested in March for making cheap sword to match tourokusho of old blades. He frequents San Francisco Tokenkai and many of you may know him. He allegedly collected tourokusho (with no blades) while overseas. ( http://lavielll750fs6.seesaa.net/article/343361955.html )

 

He, by the way, filed for bankruptcy proceedings in September 2012. ( http://ib-tousan.jp/2012/09/26/post_12_h_3.html ) He must've been desperate.

 

Another notable case of tourokusho-related fraud was from 2005 where several dealers were arrested for selling katana on internet auction with fake tourokusho. ( http://less-government.doorblog.jp/arch ... 83650.html ) They also claim the tough economic times for their motive.

 

Tourokusho by itself is a traded commodity among sword dealers in Japan. Apparently there are swordsmiths (or skilled blacksmiths) who can produce blades to match the mei and dimensions given on a tourokusho. As someone already mentioned, making fakes is a tradition that dates way back. So-called Masamune blades "produced" by the Hon'ami, for example.

 

Caveat emptor.

 

Kaji

[Jiro49]

I found this on another site from another seller but the mei and workmanship gives me a strange feeling, could this be another one?

 

I cant find any info on the smith either?

[Kajihei]

That's Yamaguchi Yasumune. His blades pop up quite often:

 

http://www.seiyudo.com/ka-08042.htm

 

http://www.samuraishokai.jp/sword/10132.html

 

Kaji

[drjoe]

yes, the seller of that yasumune blade is me. the mei did look a little odd to me, but i checked it against other examples and it appears to be consistent for this smith.

 

the forging also appears quite good for an iaito. it has a fine hada the likes of which i have never seen in any blade coming out of china.

 

i am therefore confident that it is a Japanese made blade and most likely made by yasumune.

i believe my asking price is fair and if it does not sell, i will be happy to keep it as a training blade.

 

i have been following this issue quite closely... aside from forging a mukansa's mei, i don't really see the point of forging a mei of a lesser known smith on a shinsakuto/iaito other than bypassing the restrictions that are placed upon a smith in terms of production. and in that case, i don't see that gimei would necessarily detract from it's value, since the value is simply as a good training blade.

 

as with any nihonto, the blade should never be bought based on the signature, no?

[David Flynn]

Easier to move and harder to question.

[drjoe]

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... id=komonjo

[SwordGuyJoe]

Sorry to revive a dead topic, but I'd be interested to hear what people think about who is actually doing this.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Well the board membership is either maturing or developing some collective guts. Whenever this seller has been mentioned in the past an apologist has always popped up. Pleased to see no one raising their head this time . Anyone who buys off this seller deserves what they get.

Ian Brooks

[Marius]

  Ian B3HR2UH said:

Anyone who buys off this seller deserves what they get.

 

Same goes for eBay in general.

[Soshin]

Hi Mariusz K.,

 

I would agree and would go on to say that if someone wanted a true art sword and not at best a training sword for Budo they should look up your posts in the sales section. That tanto you posted recently was just wonderful and at a fair price.

[Kevin]

Actually I'm a bit sad about this development. I remember years ago that Mike had a good reputation. If something was gimei in his opinion, he'd say so in his listing. If you asked him a question, you'd get an honest, informed opinion. Bought a few swords off him myself - he had a lot of genuine good stuff. Some of it went off to shinsa and came back with origami. Then he vanished for a long while. No idea what's happened. It's not what I expected of him. As I said, sad.

 

Kevin

[Kevin]

  mariuszk said:

  Ian B3HR2UH said:

Anyone who buys off this seller deserves what they get.

 

Same goes for eBay in general.

 

There's too many sharks in the field, and not just on eBay. You have to be aware, do research, and ask questions. If the photos are bad, don't buy, ever. However, I'm still on eBay, and you've bought from me in the past. :-) I don't think you were disappointed. :-)

 

Kevin

[Marius]

@Kevin,

 

I remember, I bought a very nice Shitahara wakizashi from you, an excellent piece

 

But your eBay sales are just an addition to your website, through which you sell some really good stuff. And there is your reputation which backs you ebay sales. That is different.

 

@David

 

Thanks for the kind words about my tanto

[Kevin]

Thanks for the compliment Mariusz. :-) It's nice to find out that I've gathered a reputation. :-) All I've really done is to treat customers as I'd like to be treated. Selling swords - or anything for that matter - should wind up with the buyer feeling happy because he or she has got what they wanted at a reasonable price, and the seller happy that they've made a sale, made a bit of a profit, and that the customer is happy with their purchase. Such a simple thing, really, as well as being good business sense. Nobody ever made money long term by screwing folks over, and the idea of doing so doesn't sit right with me anyway; I've got to look in the mirror in the morning. I hate the idea of unhappy customers anyway. In fact quite a few become friends, and that's how I like it. :-)

 

best wishes

 

Kevin