Inherited this tanto...is it real?

[felixAmbrosetti]

I am brand new to this forum and if I have posted in the wrong place, my apologies. Let me preface this with I know absolutely nothing about Japanese swords except for what I have tried to learn in the past two days. I'm interested in finding out if this is real and possibly valuable. My father recently gifted it to me and says it's been in the family a long time. So Far I have been able to identify it as a tanto (duh) and the two smaller pieces seem to be a kozuka and kogai? That's all I know. Although the blade is somewhat discolored it is not pitted and I'm sure could be buffed or polished out. I have not done anything to it for fear of ruining it's possible value by doing that. I would love some expert opinions and this seems to be a good place for that so I thank you in advance. I can post more pics or send higher res pics to anyone interested.

 

 

DISCLAIMER: If this actually turns out to be a valuable antique I may very well sell it to help finish out my basement for a father-in-law suite. However, I will not be posting opinions as fact in any kind of sale without permission. Besides if it is truly valuable I will be having a professional written appraisal done.

[uwe]

Hi Felix

Looks like a late piece. Maybe Meiji. More and closer pics would be better.

Uwe

[Curran]

Koshirae (outer fittings or wardrobe around the blade) looks real, though components may just be late Edo copper or horn pieces.

I recognize the semi-generic kozuka & kogai.

 

More detailed photos will be required.

Others will advise you on the blade itself.

[runagmc]

The blade should have a removable peg which secures it into the handle...if you feel comfortable doing it, you should carefully try to remove the handle (tsuka) as that will help to identify what the blade is...

[felixAmbrosetti]

Ok I have taken more pics with a real camera (not my phone). I compressed them down but not as much as before. You'll see a Pic of the inside of the hilt that my wife noticed there was something written. The characters are cut off by the shadow but the second is definitely a "3". I can remove the peg fairly easily but then it seems like I would have to hit it hard to get it free...I'm very hesitant to try this because whatever the material the hilt has on it doesn't seem to be strong or metal...maybe early plastic? Jade? I don't know.

[Brian]

That tsuba may be horn. If it isn't metal, I wouldn't advise tapping it to remove the tsuka. But if you can wrap the blade in a cloth and remove the handle, it would make identification easier.

Looks to be a Meiji period tanto with fairly generic fittings quite commonly seen. But nice to have them as a complete package. The blade is out of polish, but everything looks genuine so far. Value will depend on what the blade tells us, but as is maybe around $650 or so...

 

Brian

[cabowen]

Nice Meiji era mamori-gatana. Check to see if the blade is signed, and get some light oil on it...

[felixAmbrosetti]

Ok horn makes sense. As the story goes a recent ancestor of my family picked this up in Japan between 1910 and 1920. Seems to fit in the late period everybody is mentioning. Also, it's supposed to be made by a highly regarded sword maker (she was a woman of means and a marquis as they tell me). It's all a neat story but I tend to be a sceptic. I managed to get the habaki to be a little loose by carefully tapping and scraping off some build up but no luck with the blade coming out yet. Will WD40 ruin parts? I know it would be horrific on the wrap on the handle but what about the horn parts or the blade?

[Stephen]

No wd 40 or better known in Nihonto world: Weapon of mass Destruction. Light mineral oil, or choji oil.

Cant wait to see the nakago.

 

 

[Rich S]

The Kozuka and Kogai are the type known as Sendai. Many tanto of the period were fitted with complete sets of fittings of this type. Here's an excerpt from "Sendai Koshirae" from

"Edo no Tanto Koshirae" by Ide Masanobu. He is of course referring to the entire set of fittings.

-------------

This is an attractive little koshirae. When looking at this koshirae, a

person from an old sword shop would say, "Oh, this is an Ogaki

Koshirae, isn't it?"

 

Because this has frequently been sold in Ogaki of Gifu, it has the

name of Ogaki Koshirae. At the same time, it has quite a bit of

appeal and there seems to be a large number of them on

the market. Speaking of Ogaki, it is close to both the Nakasando

and Tokaido and the Ogaki Han, the Toda Ke, was also a fairly

large fief.

 

At any rate, the Ogaki Koshirae is also called a Yamazashiki

Koshirae. Its origin was far from Ogaki in Sendai. In the Sendai Han

Date Ke, the residential area for the lower class bushi was fairly high

ground and was called Yamazashiki. As for the samurai of this time,

the standard of living was rather austere, and even though they were

bushi of this Han, they seem to have had occupations of doing piecework.

One of the items that these lower class bushi of Sendai made and were

paid for by the piece for was this Yamazashiki Koshirae. However, no

mattter how many of the koshirae they made, the number they could

sell in Sendai was limited. Thus, the Date Ke, besides sending these to

their friends in the Toda Ke, also sent a large number of them to Ogaki,

and because there seemed to be a demand for them, this meant that

there were shipped from the far distant Sendai to Ogaki.

--------------------

 

Hope this helps

Rich

[Brian]

I use cheap restaurant chopsticks as a punch for this. Split them apart, then the base is usually squarish. Cut the chopstick in half, then put the base against the tsuba and tap the chopstick very lightly until the tsuka moves. Alternate sides. Even if the tsuba is horn, if you tap very lightly, you shouldn't do any damage. Keep the punch as close to the habaki as possible. Lightly tapping the wooden punch with a wooden block or the back (handle) of a small hammer) should move it. Careful though.

There are other methods usually recommended, but they don't work easily on such short blades like this.

 

Brian

[felixAmbrosetti]

Ok I admit defeat. I'm sorry but a can't get the handle off the blade. I've gotten the habaki a little loose....a tiny bit even. I tapped with this and that, I took it down to the shed and tried different techniques and I've not even been able to move the blade mo. My alternative now is to up the tapping and I'm just not willing to start breaking parts just to try and get a look at the blade and see if it's signed. Does anybody know somebody in the Atlanta, GA area that I could take this to for blade extraction and inspection? Thanks BTW for all the great info and advice!

 

ps- anybody know what the symbols on the kosuka say or mean?

[J Reid]

If you've already been firm with the tapping and no movement at all- It could be glued inside ( I wouldn't be suprised).. Probably best to just leave it.

[cabowen]

kogatana says "Yamato no Kami XX" This is a smith's title and the XX would be the smith's name. Unfortunately, it is too worn to read the name...

[Brian]

Josh is correct, there is a chance this is glued in with pine resin as was sometimes done. Don't use more force. You are correct to get it to someone who knows these things.

 

Brian

[felixAmbrosetti]

Mystery SOLVED! Unlike in the movies where the protagonist finally would get the sword apart to find that it's the rarest most valuable sword ever created by the greatest swordsmith in Japan.....alas the blade does not seem to be signed. After hours of painstaking tapping, fiddling, gently prying, more tapping, more fiddling, more persuation etc etc etc....I got it apart. It is very corroded the pictures show. This pics are AFTER a bunch of elbow grease with 00 steel wool. It still looks pretty rough and if there was a signature I don't think it would be recoverable. Such as life. I am secretly happy that I get to keep this as a gift from dad and maybe I'll pass it down to my daughter some day. The question now is what is the best way to get this thing polished up and preserved. I got the mineral oil (light coating) part but what is a good way to get it up to shine like some of the one's I've seen online. It's still got a pretty good edge and I don't plan on trying to sharpen it. I guess the signature was on the kozuka and it's faded beyond being recognized.

[kaigunair]

You'd have to send to to a professional polisher, classically trained. Anything less, and there's a great chance of ruining any intrinsic value of this little tanto.

 

Do a quick search on the forums to get recommendations and read the multitude of cautions against doing anything else.

 

Don't go to heavy on the mineral oil either as it wil gunk up the inside of the scabbard....

 

Congrats!

[uwe]

At first, do not clean the nakago with anything abrasive! However, nakago confirms my feeling. Very late Edo to more likely Meiji Tanto. I've a similar piece.

Regards

Uwe

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Felix,

You've already gone too far with the steel wool; you would have been smart not to have done that. Do not attempt any more fixes; odds are great that you'll do damage and decrease value.

The tanto doesn't warrant a new polish; too expensive for the value involved. Keep a very light coat of oil on the polished part of the blade and enjoy it as is.

Grey