What are your opinions of this piece?

[rgus]

Hi Guys Can you please give me your opinions on this blade?

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-Japanese-KATANA-S ... dZViewItem

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

It is Gimei. Max

[Stephen]

what are you using for reference to come to that conclusion.

[Nobody]

It is Gimei. Max

I do not think that it is gimei. Why do you think so?

 

http://www.geocities.jp/kanetoyo2666/ya ... igata.html

[bdgrange]

Not gemei but I have complaints about the koshirae and

concern with the boshi. The saya appears repainted and a high gloss.

Look down at the kabuto gane and you can see where it was applied with out removing the piece. The tsuka with black same seems inapropriate. The quality of same is not up to par with Yasukunito. There is no mon.

The boshi appears reshaped and the hamon may be just barely there at the yokote. Early works narrowed here but not like this. Hard to tell with the pics. Might be hard to get rid of later and someone would be upset with this. Someone has done this no favors.

regards

bdgrange

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

If this blade was a good example of Yasunori / free of problems it would not have sold at this price but have fetched more like $4500 and up. Just my 2cents. Max

[Henry Wilson]

The workmanship of the blade and the file marks look Yasukuni to me. The mei is a little bit unconventional compared to widely published examples (it looks confidently cut) and the kissaki looks like it has had a battering and the hamon looks like it could run of the end. Shame about that because as we all know (altogether now) :

 

"There is nothing nicer and more collectible than a Yasukuni sword"

 

 

:D

[Jean]

Hi Henry,

 

I don't agree with you when you write :

 

"There is nothing nicer and more collectible than a Yasukuni sword"

 

Yes, there is : 2 Yasukuni swords

:lol: :lol:

[paulb]

At fear of introducing controversy, I can think of many thousands of things which are more collectible than Yasakuni blades!

I have only seen a few in hand so my exposure is limited. However I fail to see why these are so enthusiatically collected and so highly priced. they just do not seem to measure up to the quality of Koto Shinto or Shin-shinto blades of a similar price.

Some time ago it was suggested that Yasakuni blades were oil tempered. I think this view has since been modified in to some form of post hardenning stress relief. Even so the majority of blades claiming to be Yasakuni seem to have little merit.

 

Sorry for the philistine view, I remember being told once " Its good that these swords look so boring to the uneducated, it means only the true student truly appreciates them" Well I guess that means I am not a true student, OR the emperor has another suit of new clothes.

Could someone please enlighten this uneducated (but willing to learn) northerner?

regards

Paul

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Paul,

 

just so you don't feel all alone and vulnerable :D , I'll join you in your opinion. I also think there is a very fine line between subtle, and boring. Just because someone tells you, you don't "get it" doesnt always mean there is anything worth getting!

 

Ultimately though, it must come down to personal taste. Perhaps part of the appeal has to do with their place in the history of swords and the fact that they were the last "real" swords made for battle. They have been well documented in recent years too.

 

Ford

[Brian]

Let's not get too caught up in the discussion. I know there are members who love them, and those who don't. I think this has been thoroughly hashed through before. Personally, I haven't had much exposure to them, so haven't formed an opinion. But in a battle of opinions, no-one can win

As with any collectible item though, new reference works always lead to new interest. I believe there are some stunning examples, and some that are just so-so. No problem discussing them at all, but let's not argue too much about whether or not they deserve their reputation..some people have very "firm" feelings about these swords

 

Brian

[Jean]

Hi Paul,

 

I have a good friend who is really fanatic of Japon history since 1850, who has collected as much as 100 swords (all types and in all shapes), He is very keen on Yasukuni swords even if Shinshinto remains his main collecting field.

 

I have another friend who is a fanatic of Mishina school.

 

Myself, I prefer Koto swords. I am not a specialist

of Yasukunito, but I must confess I have seen very fine blades by Yasutake, I wish I could have bought

 

In collecting, everyone has his field of interest.

I think that as collectors we are drawn by history, but upto us to determine which period of history we are interested in.

 

We've got a French saying :

 

"Tous les goûts sont dans la Nature"

 

"All the tastes are in Nature"

 

 

 

 

 

[paulb]

Brian,

Sorry I wasnt trynig to argue for arguments sake and I am sure the subject has been covered before. I can fully accept Fords view that part of their appeal is their place in history. And as you say there are, I am sure, some very fine examples as well as some less good.

My only concern is that it is too easy to get caught up in enthusiasm/ hype, particularly when starting out. It does no harm to ask why is something so good? why does it have such a reputation? How does it rate when you look at the four fundementals, shape, hada, hamon and nakago?We do it all the time with the lesser regarded schools so shouldnt we do it with those at the other end of the scale?

I am not saying Yasukuni swords are bad or good I am asking what the enthusiasts see in them (other than their place in history) that makes them so excited.

regards

Paul

[Brian]

No..not criticising anyone..just heading off any arguments before they happen

No problem discussing them at all..

Healthy debate is fine, but I just want to make sure that it doesn't go too off track towards emotion.

This subject seems to have strong feelings associated with it for some reason .

 

Brian

[Henry Wilson]

To quote myself:

 

"There is nothing nicer and more collectible than a Yasukuni sword"

 

It was meant as a joke (hence the smily face). Of course there are many things more collectible than them.......

 

What appeals to me about Yasukuni swords is that they were made for warfare but are relatively new. As a result blades are usually quite healthy with lots of meat and appear as all the older swords would have before centuries took their toll. The Yasukuni smiths are well documented with lots of photos avaiable as well as written document and we can even visit the place were they worked in Tokyo. I think this makes the swords quite unique.

 

As for the workmanship, there are a lot of mediocre blades but I have a nice ko choji Yasutoku that is an ex-museum piece and I find it delightful. Very subtle, but on the other hand, wild. A bit like myself (another joke)

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Well said Henry!

 

Like Henry, I am the owner of a nice Yasutoku so I am more than a little biased but, if one reads Mukansa-level polisher Mishina Kenji's appraisal of a Yasutoku in Tom Kashida's book on Yasukunito, I think one can begin to understand their facination.

 

They're not very exciting to look at to be sure but, as others have said before, they are the last totally traditionally-made blades (from a school with uniquely identifiable characteristics) that were actually made for combat.

 

Each Yasukunito had to undergo a highly critical shinsa and many were used in tamishigiri (on soaked tatami rolled around bamboo) before they were eventually authorised to be sold to IJA officers.

 

If one reads the article in BW Robinson, we see that, in 1945, Colonel Yamada (a senior Japanese officer who was employed by Robinson to help him to appraise 1800 surrendered swords) produced a shortlist of 20 "exceptionally fine" swords which included 3 gendaito by Yasukuni smiths.

See: http://www.to-ken.com/articles/Robbie.htm

 

I think this proves that Yasukuni blades were highly regarded by Japanese Connoisseurs long before we "Gaijin" discovered them!

 

Simon

[Guest Simon Rowson]

PS/ regarding the eBay sword in question, my Yasunori/Yasutoku has NBTHK Hozon and the mei looks very similar.

 

Granted, the saya looks re-sprayed, the ito has been re-wrapped and that boshi looks like someone's been using it to grill wieners on a barbeque!

 

I wouldn't buy it......my love of Yasukunito goes only so far.

 

Simon

[Henry Wilson]

Here is a link to some nice shots of a Yasunori blade on Darcy's site. I think it is quite nice. Check out the slide show.

 

http://www.nihonto.ca/yasunori/index.html

 

It looks a lot like my Yasutoku