Another Yamato blade?

[benkyoka]

This is the second blade I was given by my uncle-in-law. Apparently, he sold off his collection of Nihonto but gave me two of them. I am humbled to say the least. I think it may be Yamato as well.

 

some specifications;

overall length is 93.3cm

blade length is 71.0com

kissaki is 4.0cm

nakago is 22.3cm with 2 mekugi ana

width at machi is 2.7cm and at yokote is 1.9cm

sori is 1.8cm and Torii

mune is Iori

 

nakago looks to be ubu, shape is futsu, but Nakago-jiri might be Ha-agari kurijiri (I am too much an amateur to come to a correct conclusion).

yasurime looks to be takanoha

no mei

 

the hamon gives me the most questions. Is it suguha, or notare? Maybe gunome?

the boshi is another big question mark. It looks like jizo, or notare komi

 

I am using the Connoisseur's book for all my referencing. Am I close?

 

If anyone can offer advice for taking better pics I would much appreciate that as well.

[benkyoka]

pics of the boshi

 

kissaki is 4.0cm long. on a blade of 71cm is a 4cm kissaki a chu-kissaki?

[benkyoka]

Doesn't seem to be too straight...

[benkyoka]

My attempts at trying to photograph the blade.

 

Let me know if these are too many pictures and I will delete them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I am addicted...

[Stephen]

i think yur getting alot of board members turning green...love that masame jihada

[Jean]

Hi Syd,

 

Now what is your kantei,

 

1st: Koto, Shinto, Shinshinto?

 

2nd : What Province?

 

3rd : What school?

 

You have one the best Bible book, so

Make up your mind and throw the dices

That is the only way to learn ...

[nagamaki - Franco]

the hamon gives me the most questions. Is it suguha, or notare? Maybe gunome?

the boshi is another big question mark. It looks like jizo, or notare komi

 

I am using the Connoisseur's book for all my referencing. Am I close?

 

 

Thank you for sharing, this sword has a very nice shape. From the images the hamon appears to be suguha with midare. It might be suggested to read and explore further into the Yamato tradition such as Bingo Mihara, or perhaps even mainline Hosho.

[Jean]

Hi Syd,

 

Times to make up your mind.

 

You have all the clues.

 

I am going to give you a few hints.

 

1 - Yasurime files

2 - Nakago : is it really ubu?

3 - how is the hada, Mokume, Itame, Masame, mixed ...

 

Just one thing : when examinating a blade everything must be taken into account.

[Brian]

Takanoha yasurime is a strong indicator usually.

It isn't used frequently by all the schools. Combine that with the other info, and you are on your way

 

Brian

[benkyoka]

Hi Syd,

 

Now what is your kantei,

 

1st: Koto, Shinto, Shinshinto?

 

2nd : What Province?

 

3rd : What school?

 

You have one the best Bible book, so

Make up your mind and throw the dices

That is the only way to learn ...

 

I am throwing my dice:

 

Koto, Shinto, Shinshinto? Koto

What province? Yamato

What school? Yikes! This is where I show how inexperienced I am.

 

The Takanoha yasurime is very common in the Tegai school, according to the Connoisseur's. Also, looking at the boshi again one side looks like it might be yakitsume, which is also found in the Tegai school.

 

The Hosho school also produced yakitsume boshi, yet their yasurime is listed as higaki. Hamon is listed as chu-suguha mixed with ko-midare (which Franco was kind enough to comment on.)

 

I am going to give you a few hints.

 

1 - Yasurime files

2 - Nakago : is it really ubu?

3 - how is the hada, Mokume, Itame, Masame, mixed ...

 

Just one thing : when examinating a blade everything must be taken into account.

 

Nakago is suriage?

Unfortunately I have so little experience that I cannot really tell what I am looking at. Thank goodness for sites like this, ne? I am going to find some books that have many colour pictures of blades so I can learn what differentiates the ji-hada, etc.

 

How far off am I? Can anyone clarify for me what kind of boshi this is? The more I look at it the more confused I become. Thanks for everyone's comments.

[Jean]

Hi Syd,

 

 

I'd say yes you are right (I am not a specialist at kantei), I would add around Tensho sue Tegai.

 

Hosho should have been pure masame (difficult to see on your pictures), but it does not seem it is the case (you are the only one who can check it)

 

The slightly undulating hamon is not unusual in this school and Shizu is a specialist.

 

Nakago Suriage : Look at this link and the comment in Shape section.

 

With two mekugi ana you always have a chance that Nakago is not ubu, the blade is machiokuri at least.

 

But there is something very special about the Nakago which stroke me from the start and that I have only seen in Ken and Moroha (That is a big hint) and which is not natural, what it is?

 

To answer the question have a look at Aoi Art Katana Section, none of them has this feature...

[Jean]

Hi Syd,

 

I forgot the link :

 

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/07148.html

[benkyoka]

hi Jean!

 

Thanks for your comments. At a quick look comparing the nakago in the link you gave and the one in my possession, I only really notice how the ridgeline on mine seems to run through the center. A quick google search mentions that moroha zukuri has this feature. Is this correct, or am I missing something? What does this mean for my blade? Cut down from something else, or a fake?

 

A double edged blade would have no kissaki, yet mine does....

always learning.

 

I remain...

(confused)

[Jean]

Hi Syd,

 

You have pinpointed the strangeness of this more than unusual Nakago:

 

- What seems to be the original mekugi ana is center drilled exactly on the shinogi suji!!!

 

I have seen a few blades in my short life ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ) but never encountered this kind of nakago.

 

Generally, for the nakago both sides of the blade are tapered proportionally to their width. Here the cutting side has been tapered twice more than the shinogi ji

 

I am going to mail Darcy to have its opinion

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jean]

Hi Syd,

 

Here is a Tegai blade by Shizu :

 

http://www.nihonto.us/YAMATO%20SHIZU%20KATANA.htm

[Toryu2020]

Greetings all -

First post here in the new incarnation but I am sure many of you all know me. I would be interested in photos of the shinogi-ji and the hamachi. Does the hamon start there or run into the nakago? Based on the photos I would take a different bent and call this Shinshinto or Gendai Seki work. Might also be of interest to see what the torokusho has to say...

-t

[Stephen]

is that you..if so welcome back or reborn ..or what ever, good to have your 2cents anytime, after the suspense please sign with your name in part per the rules.

 

[Toryu2020]

Got it...

-tom

[Jean]

Hi Tom,

 

Welcome in the fun

 

Interesting, I have ruled out Gendaito, the nakago color seems to indicate the blade is older.

 

What is very interesting is, as you have noticed, that the nakago seems "almost" brand new. The yasururime are so distinct ...

 

"Does the hamon start there or run into the nakago?"

 

I think, considering the 2 mekugi ana, that the blade is machiokuri so unless mistaken, the hamon must run now into the nakago.

 

The Torokusho would obviously give the answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Welcome to the forum Tom

I met Tom at the Kyoto sword show. Seeing this TALL westerner walking around and chatting to the Japanese dealers like he had beeen doing this all his life, I took a chance and introduced myself. Was very glad to meet someone I had read posts from on the various groups. Tom was a big help, and assisted me translating with the dealers.

Another great addition to the forum, love the JSSUS articles too

 

Sorry for the off topic, back to this sword.

 

Brian

[Rich T]

g'day mate, nice to see you here.

 

Rich Turner

[benkyoka]

The hamon does run into the nakago, but I will try to get a good picture for you folks. I will post a picture of the torokusho as well. Give me a day.

[Toryu2020]

Jean et al -

Thank you, I am glad to be here and always glad to talk swords. Kantei from photos is always a dicey thing, even with a sword in hand I am wrong 9 times out of 10. Based on what I see in the pictures, there is no color change in the nakago nor any difference in the look of the yasuri mei to indicate machi-okuri. The mekugi-ana appear new, they appear drilled and the placement is odd for an older piece. There appears to be a distinct lack of nie in the close ups of the boshi and the hamon at least that is how it looks to my eye. The jigane looks to be mujihada except in that one picture, but they are just pictures.

 

The torokusho may give us the answer, it might also just say "katana, Mumei", in either case I am curious to know more about the piece and I am grateful for the opportunity...

-tom

[benkyoka]

Here's the pics. I will let the more experienced members judge the degree to which the hamon runs into the nakago.

[Toryu2020]

Syd -

Thanks for the photos. It is pretty clear that your piece is ubu. While the hamon does run into the nakago, it clearly begins just below the hamachi and the yasuri mei are "finished" just below that. The torokusho says pretty much what I expected not sure any of us can offer more than we have based on the pics. All in all though a fine gift and you should count yourself lucky,

-tom

[benkyoka]

Thanks, Tom. I do count myself lucky, and a big 'Thank you' to you and everyone who has provided information. Based on the new photos, I should consider this a gendaito?

[Toryu2020]

Syd -

Based on the photo you should consider it ubu, virgin, unaltered. Then with two mekugi-ana we need to consider that it is old enough to have been remounted at least once. So given the shape Shinto, Shinshinto or Gendaito. Taka no Ha yasuri most likely mean Seki but not always so look for all the folks who used this yasuri mei. The yasuri are "finished" not quite kessho but with that look which would suggest shinshinto or Gendaito. In general koto has activity in the grain Shinto in the hamon, as time progresses there is less and less activity overall. The grain appears subdued except in that one photo and the hamon as well which also suggests later production to my eye. The boshi is rather distinct on one side and that may be our biggest clue to school or smith.

 

All this from photos is really guessing because the sword in hand is worth a thousand photos but I think you should be looking at Seki work somewhere in the last 200 years but your own study is likely to reveal more than we can provide online. I eny you the adventure...

-t

[mike yeon]

First off, nice looking blade! I agree with shin-shinto/gendai leaning more towards gendai. Look for ubu-ha (unsharpened portion of the nagasa starting at the hamachi.) This is a good sign the blade is younger.

 

I don't know much about later mino characteristics but the boshi/kissaki/koshi-ba don't seem mino to me.

 

In any case, you've got a lot of fun research ahead of you.

 

Best of luck.

 

mike