Wakazashi / Katana Mei confirmation

[Lou]

I found these for sale locally. I am new to collecting so i'm a little unsure of their value. I've researched what i can and it seems the wakazashi checks out to be maybe third generation of this swordsmith. I can"t confirm yet on the katana.

Here is the information that was given to me:

The Mei reading on the wakzashi is Awataguchi Oomi no kami Tadatsuna. Awataguchi is the name of the swordsmith group. Oomi no kami was the Governor of the Oomi area. Tadatsuna is the first name of the swordsmith. According to three polish experts the sword will polish and require a full polish if you wish it restored. After polish worth $7000+ per Harunaka Hoshino-S>F> sword Society. Robert Gordon-Tokyo has also looked at both swords and agrees.

The 2nd. sword is a Katana, and the Mei reading is Mori mitsu. 1136-1596. Requires only partial polish to restore. The experts say it will polish. After polish worth $5000+.

Any other information, especially on value would be appreciated. Thank you

[Dr Fox]

Hi lou

 

Have you decided where your polishing will be done, and at what cost for each sword? Just trying to see from your post, what your expense is likely to be to reach the value estimates you posted.

Cheers Denis.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

I've researched what i can and it seems the wakazashi checks out to be maybe third generation of this swordsmith

 

 

Only two generations with that name, can you post a very good picture of the nakago ?

[John A Stuart]

There are 3 gens. 3rd gen also Munetsuna, Murai Kubeijo. Better than 2nd. Lower than shodai. He did sign this way, but, I can't verify signature. John

[Brian]

Couple of points:

That would be Gordon Robson from Tokyo, not Robert Gordon I assume. And you should verify he said that.

The figures quoted for polish are on the high side, and would in all likelyhood not be economically viable if you hope to recoup a profit later.

You shouldn't listen to advice given by a certain SF Sword Society, according to most sources.

 

Brian

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Lou,

Go to FAQ above and read the bit about new collectors being in a hurry to have everything done with their 1st sword. You would be smart to slow down and learn a lot before you go much further.

If you do have a sword polished be very careful who you let do the work. There are many idiots with sharpening stones who shouldn't be let anywhere near Nihonto.

Grey

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

There are 3 gens. 3rd gen also Munetsuna, Murai Kubeijo. Better than 2nd. Lower than shodai. He did sign this way, but, I can't verify signature. John

 

Sandai (Munetsuna) never signed with the name Tadatsuna (at least there is no extant work signed that way).

 

Shodai Tadatsuna is rated jo-saku, Nidai (Ikkanshi Tadatsuna) is rated jo-jo-saku and Munetsuna only chu-jo saku.

[Dr Fox]

Brian

Do I read it right? are the figures quoted after polish, not for polish?

Regards

Denis.

[doug e lewis]

Robert Benson would be a good choice...if he had the time

 

Maybe Fred in San Francisco---- any opinions on his service?

 

other than that.... take above advice ... leave it alone & learn more about nihonto. That's what I did with brother's katana [now returned to him].

 

you lucky guy... wish I had those... would do nothing but look at them for hours....

[Lou]

Thank you all for your support. I am treading any purchase very carefully. I have a few books as reference and do browse here quite often but i have yet to really gain confidence in purchasing anything authentic. I'm still waiting for more photos of the mei on the katana so i can research. The values he listed would be what he was told the set would be worth after polishing. I know polishing is a very fine art that cant be trusted to just anyone. With that said i know it would cost a pretty pennie to have it done right therfore adding to the cost. The seller is asking $5,000 for the pair and as you can see they are incomplete. My main concern is if these blades were authentic, and within a good price range to negotiate for.

Again Thank you all for offering your wisdom.

[hxv]

Lou,

 

The cost of shirasaya is about $450/daito, and the cost of polishing is about $100/inch. So, for both swords, the cost of shirasaya is about $900. Assuming a 26-in daito and a 17-in wakizashi, the total cost of polishing is about $4300. Adding on top of this cost is $5000, making the total cost just about $10,200. Assuming the signatures are authentic (not gimei), the estimated value of the swords s $12,000. I don't see any upside in this scenario. There is always a *BIG* chance that the signatures are not authentic, in which case the swords are not worth even $3000 (combined value). Your downside is $9,000, and your upside is $2,000. I wouldn't touch these swords with a 10-ft pole if I were you. This is my unadulterated, unbiased opinion. Please do not take offense.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[doug e lewis]

$450 for shirasaya for the katana/tachi? seems very high. Mike V. in Pasadena would probably charge about $250, & $200 for the "wak" [sure looks funny for traditional wakazashi ....guess you would have to hold it in your hand to know]. plus shipping costs. now, he uses alder, as getting honoki is difficult & pricey in US [so he says], so that may be the reason for the seemingly high cost, it is for using honoki. Mike has been doing it for over thirty years. almost retired, but got bored and now wants more work.... he is well known in the Southern California Japanese Sword Society, of course.

 

you can always have a window opened in the "wak" to see if worth full polish .... maybe $200... I don't know, that is what I have been told it costs. the katana [tachi?] looks fine from a distance to my untrained eye.... again a window?

 

I hope to go to the Token Kai of the Northern California Japanese Sword Club this year.. Meet & greet some folks I only know by word, book or legend.... and if all goes well [it always comes down to $$$ don't it] come home with some kodugu or, if I win the lottery, a katana or wakazashi of modest, yet acceptable, quality.... or just with good memories, lots of pictures and some new friends to keep in touch with..... maybe I will see some NMB members there....

[cabowen]

$450 is cheap for a first class shirasaya. These days in Japan, with the exchange rate, a top quality shirasaya is closer to $600-$650 for a katana. The best shirasaya in the US are around $700 I have been told.

 

Of course you can get a $200 saya and a $1000 polish. In the long run these are the most expensive. You can do it cheap or you can do it right.

 

I wouldn't take the "expert opinions" seriously at this point. You can't be certain from photos.

[doug e lewis]

Not many complaints over the years about Mike V.'s work. they are comparatively plain & simple, next to some I have seen, especially those done in pre-WW II days.... the craftsmanship is top rate, tho... and he does care about what he does. Advertized for awhile in the So. Cal. Japanese Sword Society news letter, Nanka Token Kai Newsletter. He mostly relies on repeat clients & referrals.... retired from Hughes a few years back... and now wants to do than 2-3 a month.. He used to do 2-3 per week...

 

anyway, an option to protect the swords til Lou knows what he has.... if the tachi [ IMHO] is really by that smith, several with that name as you know, then he has something special.... yep..must hold it in your hand... how can folks buy swords for thousands of $$$ on e-bay! Unless they know the seller, of course

 

wish I had the bucks to indulge myself like that.... retirement is not all that much fun with having limited money....

[cabowen]

I have seen Mike's work and it is nice. The only problem I have is that I like mine made of honoki. I especially like them made from old, properly seasoned honoki. Even better when the honoki is figured....To get the top quality wood, you need to have them made in Japan. I'm a believer in doing it once and doing it right.

[doug e lewis]

he would love to use honoki.... but you know the problems getting it here, besides the price.... someone once told that Fred W. in SF bought up a whole bunch years ago and he is hording, doling it out to "preferred" customers. Which I take to mean those who are willing to pay a premium!

 

You are right : "The bitterness poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"

 

Have a good weekend! Bonzai!