Gimei Sukehiro

[Dr Fox]

I recently purchased a Wakizashi due to the fact it had a toranba hamon, this sat quite well with a katana I have. It has a gimei of Sukehiro.

What I wanted to ask was, can a member place alongside this photo, a real mei from this smith, and kindly show the relevant points that indicate, how this mei is obviously fake.

I would gain a lot from a knowledgeable comparison, and perhaps others might too.

Regards Denis.

[cabowen]

try google searching Sukehiro or 助広, use the images search.

[Dr Fox]

Thanks Chris

Done that already, but that only confirms the reading of Sukehiro, not what my enquiry was about.

Regards Denis.

[NihontoEurope]

Hello,

 

I was myself about to recommend google.

 

I have never seen a misspelled gimei. What you need to do is to compare signatures.

 

The one on the blade you uploaded here is an obvious signature not made by the smith.

 

Find verified signatures on the web that are verified by papers.

 

When you find a verified specimen you will see what is wrong by your own eyes. If not, we will show you when you upload the reference mei.

 

/Martin

[Brian]

Denis,

I think what you are asking would fill a book. Determining gimei isn't just about comparing features of a signature. Otherwise, it wouldn't take a whole shinsa panel. A large part of it is gut feel. How the confidence feels in the mei, and the overall impression you get. Strokes and signatures varied over time, so it really does take an expert to verify gimei. All we can do is take an educated guess based on what we see, but that isn't something easily put into words often.

Let's see what people come up with when shown a shoshin one.

 

Brian

[NihontoEurope]

Well said Brian.

 

Unfortunately I cannot upload any pics as I'm not in possession of a computer at the moment and on the travelling foot.

 

/Martin

[Jussi Ekholm]

I'm not good with photoshopping so I'll let someone else do it. And more experienced can advice you more on differences.

 

 

Here is another one:

http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00160.html

[Dr Fox]

Aha!!

I thank you for your responses, what I thought is that a gimei was an exact attempt to deceive, now from your suggestions, it might not be good enough to fool even me!

I will do as suggested and compare to references on the web, and see what I can come up with.

Denis.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Wrong location...

[Geraint]

Hi,

Cryptic.

[NihontoEurope]

What Jacques is trying to point out is one of a few tellers. The ana is in the wrong place to the kanji.

 

/Martin

[cabowen]

  Dr Fox said:

Thanks Chris

Done that already, but that only confirms the reading of Sukehiro, not what my enquiry was about.

Regards Denis.

 

 

Sorry I misunderstand. I thought you wanted examples of valid Sukehiro mei to compare to....

[Dr Fox]

Thanks Chris

I went there anyway.

Brian, I totally get where you are coming from.

Jussi, thanks for the great examples to work from.

I have spent a good couple of hours, and must say with the guidance given, started to to make sense. As a total beginner its time to hand in the exam paper for marking. The gimei differs as follows.

All the examples I could find shows the mei starting below the ana.

In examples of wakizashi, the Tsu Ta was omitted, and left room for the mei to be below the ana.

Using the two examples Jussi provided, it could be seen Suke, is no where as fluid and tight.

The real mei is written like music, and to me has rhythm.

In comparison the gimei, just does not flow, it does not have art.

And then I found the Sukehiro mei that was described as 'typical box style', and all the above went out of the window

Thanks Denis.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

  Quote

And then I found the Sukehiro mei that was described as 'typical box style', and all the above went out of the window

 

There were two Sukehiro and the nidai has started signing in sosho style in Enpô 2 only. Before he signed in kaisho style.