Wakizashi info

[Nihonto2013]

I have had this blade for well over a decade and know very little about it. It was not complete when I got it, missing the tsuka. The cutting edge is 14 inches long. The blade is stained and in dire need of a polish, if recommended.

 

I know the photos are a little cut and chopped but I have to reduce the size to accomodate the requirement.

 

Will include more if you want later.

 

Thanks,

 

J.Edward

[Jiro49]

Sir, the pictures except for maybe one, won't do any good in aiding your request.

 

Try to find the standard web format usually available in most photo editing software and give it another go.

 

Respectfully,

[mdiddy]

Looks to be signed 'Bishu Osa...' and dated to Meio period (1490's) if legitimate. Could we see pictures of the blade and the rest of the nakago? Maybe also zoom out and show us the tsuba and kozuka too.

 

Matt

[Nihonto2013]

Ok I think these are little better. This is exactly how I saw it when I got it. The first thing I noticed was the obvious high level of workmanship. Observations?

 

Thanks,

 

J.Edward

[hxv]

Hi J. Edward,

 

From the pictures, with the blade in its current state, I don't think there is much conclusion we can arrive at regarding quality. The mei seems to be "Bishu Osafune .... Mitsu." If the sword is only 14" cutting edge, being as old as it seems to be, it must have been heavily cut down. Making this assumption, I don't see how the signature can fully remain on the nakago. I'll stick my neck out and say gimei - signature added some time after the sword was cut down.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[cabowen]

Seems to be signed Bishu Osafune Harumitsu

 

備州長船春光

 

Search the web for comparisons.

[Nihonto2013]

Hi,

 

In taking another look at this blade. It really appears to be constructed more like a 14inch Tanto.

 

Now I can relay how I found this blade. I was walking through a flea market doing a little "picking" for my store, when I came across a fellow who delt with WW2 related stuff. Mostly junk reproduction daggers and East German uniforms, trying to pass them off to the locals as "Vet Aquired". Anyway I was just browsing the boxes of stuff he had just brought in that morning, still in front of the Garage door in his booth. I saw the naked tang of what appeared to be a longish blade poking out of a box full of old toys and mildew. I dug my way to it and pulled this out. I asked about it and he said he was waiting for a guy he had called who bought all the swords he found, at yard sales and junk stores. Well a couple of weeks before I had some Vietnam era fighting knives with me and he had shown some interest. I raced back to the house picked up the knives and got back as quick as I could. I offered him the knives and he accepted, before the other guy showed up. "Better the deal in front of you", as they say. I had about $50 into the knives so that is what I figure I have into this blade. I have had it displayed on the wall for the last 10 years. I had picked up a loose Tsuka, from somewhere and have it on the blade to make it look more complete.

 

I enjoy it for what it is, an old blade. If that is all that it is, then thats just fine.

 

Thanks, for all the info,

 

J.Edward

[Brian]

We really need to see more, and not just closeups of small areas. Try find a way to resize the pics and not just crop them. Also, 72 dpi is more than enough. Otherwise you get these huge filesizes.

I am dubious about the 14" nagasa. That would be odd for what we can see there. Need to get an overall shot of the whole sword. Child's sword or shortened from the top or.....?

That kozuka looks quite nice, in iron?

A few overall shots and we can tell you more.

 

Brian

[Marius]

It really appears to be constructed more like a 14inch Tanto

 

Sorry, there were no tanto with a shinogi zukuri (honzukuri) shape. Also, a 14inch shinogi zukuri wakizashi would be very very untypical, to say the least.

[Nihonto2013]

Hi,

 

Yes the Kozuka appears to be iron with the gold mon inlay. The blade has some characters engraved on it also. One seems to be obscured by rust. I will get a better picture of it tonight.

 

Thanks,

 

J.Edward

[Nihonto2013]

More pics

[Lance]

Not saying the signature's good but the placement of the mei at the end of the tang, along with the short stubby shape fit fairly well with an original Muromachi period Bizen tang. The hamachi Looks like it was moved up (machi-okuri) and helps explain the currently short blade length as well. I added a picture using my great photo editing skills for comparison of where the habaki might have originally been, putting the blade somewhere around 16-17 inches, seems a reasonable length for a wakizashi of this time period.

Regards,

Lance

[Bazza]

Sorry, there were no tanto with a shinogi zukuri (honzukuri) shape. Also, a 14inch shinogi zukuri wakizashi would be very very untypical, to say the least.

Mariusz, not so. I have held in my hand a shinogi zukuri tanto complete with koshirae. However, it was indeed a strange looking thing, mumei, and I guess the front end of what was left of a skinny katana. I think it was probably an alteration to give someone a cheap defensive tool, much like the yari we see mounted as tanto. It underscores the point that the only rule in collecting Nihonto is that there is an exception to every rule...

 

Best regards,

BaZZa.

[Marius]

BaZZa,

 

You admit that you have held in your hand a greatly shortened wakizashi/katana, and I may add that it is likely that the koshirae has been assembled (I doubt it was custom made).

 

Of course we can call a greatly shortened sword a tanto (which, BTW is not a very old term) but it will not be on, at least not originally made as such.

 

Someone find me an ubu blade with a nagasa of up to 30cm (heck, I'll be generous and go beyond the definition of tanto: let us make that 35 cm!) and I will gladly admit that I am wrong

 

Of course the problem lies in the nomenclature. "Tanto" is a relatively new term. But even if we look at was was once called "koshigatana" - we are not very likely to find shinogi zukuri there.

[paulb]

Someone find me an ubu blade with a nagasa of up to 30cm (heck, I'll be generous and go beyond the definition of tanto: let us make that 35 cm!) and I will gladly admit that I am wrong

 

 

Careful Mariusz you are beginning to sound like someone else I know

 

For the sake of clarity:

I understand and agree with your point that no koto tanto (I have never seen one) was made in Shinogi zukuri.

There are koto blades which have been recycled, shortened and remounted as wakazashi, tanto, I have even seen the top 6 inches of a beautiful Yamashiro tachi blade made in to a WWII pilots dagger.

[Marius]

Careful Mariusz you are beginning to sound like someone else I know

 

Grumpy on a Saturday morning , with loads of work for the weekend

Sorry, I promise to revert to my default mode of cheerfulness

 

BaZZa, no offence, OK? Please, please?

[Bazza]

 

Grumpy on a Saturday morning , with loads of work for the weekend

Sorry, I promise to revert to my default mode of cheerfulness

 

BaZZa, no offence, OK? Please, please?

 

HAHAHA - Mariusz, absolutely no offence at all. In fact, your brain was more in gear than mine!!! SHEESH - UBU tanto in shinogi zukuri was what you meant, and I took it too liberally when I should have taken a nap...

 

It was a long time ago that I saw this shinogi zukuri "thing" and apart from its outstanding awkwardness of sugata I cannot now remember anything about the tang. So, Mariusz' original question stands - show us an UBU shinogi tsukuri tanto,

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Brian]

"show us an UBU shinogi tsukuri tanto," ....that isn't a Boy's sword.

 

Brian

[Thierry BERNARD]

....that isn't a Boy's sword.

 

Brian

 

agree! look like a boy's sword!

[Brian]

That's why I am after a full overall shot of the blade. Looking at the width of the blade...and the fact that it has such a short nagasa...

If it were a cut down sword, the width would be wider and it would look beefier. Comparing it to the kogatana, it is a delicate and slender blade.

Therefore, very likely a boys sword. But we will only know when we get a complete blade shot, maybe with a matchbox or something to indicate scale.

 

Brian

[Nihonto2013]

Hi,

 

I tried to catch just the blade all by itself, with a very handy razor sharp tool beside it for scale, also hoping the marble floor tiles could provide scale as well. Those tiles are pretty close to being 1 foot square. Could it be something made for a woman or boy? It does seem to be to the proper scale to accomodate a smaller person.

 

Thanks,

 

J.Edward

[cabowen]

What has been asked for is a picture of the complete blade. Not the top 75%, not the bottom 85%, the whole, tip to end, complete, 100% of the blade....

[Nihonto2013]

Hi,

 

Here we go, looks like I may have gotten a good profile shot of the blade.

 

Thanks,

 

J.Edward

[cabowen]

Boy's sword seems like a good bet. Thanks for taking those pictures.

[runagmc]

BaZZa,

 

You admit that you have held in your hand a greatly shortened wakizashi/katana, and I may add that it is likely that the koshirae has been assembled (I doubt it was custom made).

 

Of course we can call a greatly shortened sword a tanto (which, BTW is not a very old term) but it will not be on, at least not originally made as such.

 

Someone find me an ubu blade with a nagasa of up to 30cm (heck, I'll be generous and go beyond the definition of tanto: let us make that 35 cm!) and I will gladly admit that I am wrong

 

Of course the problem lies in the nomenclature. "Tanto" is a relatively new term. But even if we look at was was once called "koshigatana" - we are not very likely to find shinogi zukuri there.

I'm not certain that this sword is ubu, but it's the best I could come up with. :D Supposedly an early example of shinogi-zukuri from around 900 AD... or at least that's what I had written down with the picture...

[Brian]

Yes, I'm betting this was a boy's sword. It would fit the bill, so to speak.

Search the forum for "boys sword" to see more info.

 

Brian

[Marius]

I'm not certain that this sword is ubu, but it's the best I could come up with

 

No, it is not. Such remnants of good/important swords have been preserved just to admire the steel.