WOW - these blades sold for $20,000+ at Auction!

[DaveM4P99]

I am not even sure they are real...

 

I actually emailed the curator to get pics of some of the tangs...he responded with only one set of photos, since the "other blades were standard military issue serial numbered blades." They still sold for over $20,000!

 

Lots 155, 156, 157...scroll down... http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21082/61307/#r1=183&m1=1

 

Lot 157 below sold for $22,500. Wow...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[runagmc]

The blade in the pics you posted looks like a typical Chinese fake to me...

[J Reid]

ludacris!

[hxv]

Dave,

 

Um.... I don't know what to say. May be these guys can help me auction off a piece of property I own in Paris called the Eiffel Tower.

 

Hoanh

[Kai-Gunto]

Crazy prices.

[cabowen]

Someone is in for a baaaaad day....

[pcfarrar]

What about the run of the mill meatball flag:

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21082/l ... 6b1%3Dlist

[Stephen]

and scarf

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21082/l ... 3%26m1%3D1

[Alex A]

$22500!!!.....is it of sentimental value or something? :?

 

Alex.

[Jiro49]

Really!!! I looked at the auction page but I still cant believe it!

 

90% of the prices seem insane.

[Mark]

I am thinking there is a mistake in the way they show the sold price, a flag selling for $23k? maybe the decimal is moved 2 places, it would make more sense if the flag was $230 ??????

[Jiro49]

That's what I was hoping it was...

[mdiddy]

Maybe it has to do with the connection to a museum giving the items legitimacy that they did in fact come from Iwo Jima. That at least is a departure from the standard eBay auction stating the same. Pretty incredible results though.

[rkg]

posting about overpayment for armor by museum deleted

[drbvac]

You are serious aren't you - I am VERY pleased that after several years here I wouldn't bid 5 bucks for it - would have given my right nu4 to be sitting beside the loon bidding

[george trotter]

and scarf

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21082/l ... 3%26m1%3D1

 

Steven, I think this "War Museum" must have been a private money making amateur organisation. These descriptions are very "wobbly".

For a start...the Solomons wasn't taken by the Americans in 1945 and there was never a navy kamikaze unit there.

Guadalcanal was landed on by the US in August 1942. Bougainville the next year at Torakina Bay. We Aussies took over Bougainville and we were the ones who took it. Guadalcanal had some isolated pockets of army resistance for about year or so. By 1945 the Japanese air units were virtually non-existant in the Solomons...they had been bypassed and the Japanese were starving. There may have been a few isolated cases of suicide dives into allied ships but not by "kamikaze" units. By 1944 the US forces had virtually moved north to Saipan/Marianas/Pelileu etc...the SW Pacific was 90% Australian campaign by then.We Aussies took New Britain (Rabaul) and many outlying islands in this group and Borneo. The IJA-IJN surrendered in August 1945.

I can't explain these mind-boggling prices.

Regards,

[J Reid]

I'd just like to comment further and say that when I got home from work today I just had to run and show the lady this. Just looking at those prices again actually makes me feel a tad ill. There is no way these can be right!! It's just so wrong... Blah. Where do buyers like this come from?!

 

..okay I'm done now.

[Nickupero]

I can guarantee the buyer will never buy another Japanese blade once he/ she realizes what was actually purchased.

Whats crazy is there was at least one other bidder going up against him/ her!!!

[Civilis]

In my opinion either the whole site is a fake, hoping to attract some not to savvy people and hope they make a bid on something. Or people are buying other things than the ones listed or someone is forced to bid outrageous prices for worthless items in some kind of racketeering scheme. No normal explanation would be acceptable in my view.

[kusunokimasahige]

Bonhams has dropped in my esteem.

 

However, if there are two or more nutters who keep bidding on junk, junk will fetch a high price.

 

What I find very questionable in this case is the misrepresentation of these items.

 

Has anyone on this board emailed those "experts" and told them ?

 

KM

[growlingbear]

Bizarre - the estimates for the swords were all around $1000. The scarf and flag were estimated to go for about the same. There must have been some confused people in the saleroom watching the bids go so high...

 

I'd say if anyone has anything from Iwo Jima, now appears to be the time to sell.

 

James

[templar44]

A few years ago a medieval sword circa 1200 sold here in Toronto for $100,000. I held the sword and felt it was original. A dealer friend of mine who has examined far more than I felt it was fake. In the end who knows what runs through peoples minds. Additionally what is the back room information. For all we know that Sgt's uniform was from John Pantelone and he sent that stuff home before he was killed on Iwo Jima. Or the more likely is that two ego's were in the room with more money than knowledge.

Tony Martin

 

P.S Anyone want to buy a meatball flag for $5,000. It has a slight tear. :lol:

[kusunokimasahige]

If you have 1.500.000 US$, Mount Suribachi is yours.

 

I'll even ask my friend, the artist Christo, to giftwrap it for you.

 

[Curran]

There are much better ways to launder money without slippage.

~Fun stuff. The sort of thing bored senior accountants amuse themselves with.

 

I've seen some auction house pissing contests, but usually it is over one or two items.

Sounds like this was quite one for the record books.

[Brian]

Had to remove a post, because obviously we cannot make allegations about any unfair practise without any proof.

There are many possible reasons for the high prices here.

While people are free to bid as they choose, and the final result has nothing to do with the auctioneer (usually) my concern lies with the auction house representing an item/s that is possibly a fake or not what they are described as. That sword is dodgy...even if one tries to go back to the usual "later war emergency issue" story. If a buyer does determine an item to be a copy later, I am guessing he has recourse later?

All I can say is that I wish I was the seller.

 

Brian

[paulb]

I wrote to Bohams quierying the fake blade.

They claim they had withdrawn the obvious fake from the sale. I pointed them towards the illustration and the fact that the sword sold for more than 20K. They claim that there were more than 6 buyers willing to compete with each other to pay these high prices which also took them by surprise. I feel their attitude leaves something to be desired in this. The feeling one gets from the answers is that if an idiot is prepared to pay the money they are happy to take it. If they continue to claim this sword is correct it raises serious question marks about their competence.

[Ted Tenold]

For all we know that Sgt's uniform was from John Pantelone and he sent that stuff home before he was killed on Iwo Jima.

 

Correction: Sgt. John Basilone

 

While the prices achieved remarkable levels and the items of no greater quality than we're used to seeing in the mainstream, the buyers of these items aren't buying quality. They're buying history. They're concerned with condition and provenance. I collected militaria for over 25 years and still maintain interest in it. In militaria, the difference between average and rarified air is purely in the provenance. The story these items tell is the romance of collecting. The fact that a 48 star US flag is available at auction pales in comparison to a 48 star cotton US flag that is irrefutably tied to the USS Arizona being available at all.

 

The sword in discussion does look dodgy, but the other one (the NCO Shingunto with the painted USMC unit, name, campaigns) is something that fills the niche that the militaria field thrives on. The fact that it achieved the price it did is remarkable, but then again so were many of the Nihonto prices I've see at auctions in the past. Let's not be glib; it's all worth as much as the next guy is willing to pay and as long as the provenance is accurate and true, the pieces are as represented, and the buyers accepted, free, and willing to bid, then there's little more to say.

[kusunokimasahige]

I agree with Ted concerning the militaria auctions.

 

Having worked for several auction houses as a porter I always was surprised when several items went sky high.

The most surprised I was when a Persian rug (an old and not even nice one) of about 1 meter by 2 meters fetched 25.000 Guilders (+/-12.250 Euro)

 

Having collected WWII militaria the most expensive thing I ever bought was USAAF flight gear, a full suit, mae west etc.

Sold that on to a Czech Museum which wanted to exhibit it in their B-17 exhibit.

 

KM

[paulb]

Hi Ted,

I agree with you regarding the authentic pieces. Ultimately the artefact is worth what the market will stand and acording to Bonhams there were several bidders there who felt what was on offer was worth the prices (at least two of them did) The one that causes me concern is the one illustrated at the beginning of the thread which I believe to be far beyond "dodgy". I think it is an outright fake. If this is sold supposedly with provenance then it throws the provenance of the other pieces in to doubt.

According to Bonhams they had removed a Chinese fake so they must be aware that all was not as it seemed. When I pointed them towards this one they immediately went off to investigate.

If people want to pay zillions for something that is up to them however when they do it they should be confident a major auction house is describing it correctly.

[Ted Tenold]

Paul, I absolutely agree with you. The provenance is the element that should be judged on quality. If the piece is documented from prior collections, estates, museums, legal affadavit, etc., then it's got a full measure of confidence. If it's merely a description from the auction house with questionable or inaccurate historic reference, then the provenance has to be judged in isolation rather than in conjunction. Therein lies the rub. Savvy buyers need to know as much about history as they do the item. They also need to have initiative enough to question the information prior to the commencement of the auction. "Because ""they"" said so" won't get far after the fact.

 

At the end of the day the buyers have to determine their own comfort level and establish their own judgments, hopefully setting any emotionally driven enthusiasm aside. If not then bidding plants the seeds of hubris, and the phrase that comes to mind is: "the willing can't be raped".