Ebay - from Japan

[GARY WORTHAM]

Well, it's finally dawned on me, that the great days of Ebay have come to an end. Have purchased a few wonderful deals, over the years, with excellent contacts. I remember the early days, where Japanese swords and fittings, were from the USA, and you could get a phone #, call the seller, discuss the item; and then bid with confidence.

 

As I scan the offerings, the vast majority are from unknown Japanese locations, or from China. These contact / items are not a confidence building endeavor. It seems, that now the last of my sources will be the USA shows; where I know the seller, see the item, and come to an agreement on a fair price to all; pay and walk away with confidence.

 

Just my opinion, and wondering, how others are evolving, in their purchasing directions.

[cabowen]

When ebay first started, I bought lots of swords and got lots of great deals. While I haven't really been actively adding to my collection for a long time, I haven't bought a sword on ebay in almost 10 years....I do know of a Juyo or two bought for peanuts on ebay, but these days it seems it would be better odds to buy a lottery ticket.

 

What I have bought I have found on the Japanese auction sites. No chinese fakes to weed through.

 

It is a buyer's market. There are new sword dealer sites springing up all the time. Plenty of them offer inspections and it is easier and cheaper to shop at home then go to shows. I think if one wants to build a nice collection, it has never been easier. Those interested in treasure hunting might be better off in a different pursuit.

[sanjuro]

I agree with Chris.

My own experience is somewhat similar apart from the shopping at home preference. Because of my location I am obliged to shop overseas. Ebay however, is something of a dead zone compared to what it once was. I have a small group of Ebay sellers that I keep an eye on, sellers that I have dealt with over a period of years and whom I trust. The general run of sellers on ebay I ignore. For any acquisition of quality, I rely almost exclusively on dealers (mostly in Japan).

I guess on reflection that it was inevitable that ebay would ultimately descend largely into the clutches of trash and/or fake peddlers. It is rarely now that I buy anything on ebay, and the last blade I bought there was some two years ago from a seller that I know and have trusted for a decade or more.

Having said as much, I recently bought a tembo tsuba of quite nice quality on ebay for less than $80 (again from a seller I have confidence in)......... Go figure, but dont expect to repeat that excercise very often.

[Curran]

Yeah, that tsuba was a nice little buy.

[sanjuro]

Curran.

 

I have it in hand now and the patina is really nice and dark with what appears to be small iron bones in the mimi that did not show in the photographs. The steel is as hard as the hobs of hell as you suspected. :D

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am of the opinion about eBay is that you should watch, bid, and support the good sellers and ignore the bad and the high fees of eBay will in time take care of bad sellers.

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[sanjuro]

David.

 

I hear what you say and I agree with you. However, without having dealt with them previously, how do you pick the good sellers??? For newbies ebay is a minefield. OK for experienced nihontophiles who have at least some idea of what to look for, what a fake looks like etc, but a newbie in amongst all the ebay predators has about the same chance of escaping unscathed as a snowball in hell.

[Adrian]

Actually this forum has informations about a lot of ebay sellers. The problem is that some of them figured out that they could register here and claim member privileges (having some negative topics deleted) without actually participating in the discussions. (4 posts in 3.5 years for example)

 

Others have enthusiastic feedback (and justified - I saw the ebay links) on the forum, but recently started to behave in a less then honest manner.

[cuttingedge59]

Hi All'

As a relatively new collector I am interested how the more experience collectors view the E-bay sellers who offer Japanese papers (NBTHK)with their items . In most cases these are new papers and come with a 14 day right of return . There seem to be some relativity nice fittings available at a resonable cost from a couple of Japanese sellers who have excellent feedback.

Chris

[Brian]

Chris,

How about some links to one or 2?

I am not aware of any "relativity nice fittings available at a resonable cost from a couple of Japanese sellers who have excellent feedback" that come with papers.

Lots of flashy looking stuff that isn't as nice on closer scrutiny, but don't come with papers. Have seen a few items with papers..but also mediocre stuff at market value. Would help if you can show us some examples.

 

Brian

[sanjuro]

I think that there are one or two principles that we tend to overlook when dealing on ebay, and they bear reiteration.

Generally speaking, swords on ebay are there because they are not of a quality that dealers would care to handle. When we see swords by a dealer on ebay it is because of (a) The dealer wants to turn the sword around quickly, or, (b) it is not of a quality that he is usually associated with and which he would risk his reputation on. Usually they are listed by dealers accordingly and if they have papers one must bear in mind that the sword in question may have been polished after those papers were issued and some faults may have emerged in that final polishing. It is legitimate that such swords should appear on ebay in order to realise the best possible return for the dealer. The 14 day return policy is certainly a measure of security, but not a guarantee as it is often viewed by prospective buyers.

 

Remember that the objectives of an auction are, (a)From the sellers point of view, to realise the best possible price, and (b) if you are a buyer, then the prime motivation is to get the sword at the lowest possible price. I always have a problem rationalising these two objectives in a way that satisfies both parties, but hey, what the hell, it seems to work.

Swords listed by non dealers quite frankly are suspect and usually sub standard. In most cases they have been rejected by a dealer or the seller is trying to bypass the dealer, cut out the middle man and maximise his profit from the item. None of this, regardless of return policies, works in the buyer's favour.

 

When you deal on ebay, you deal at the bottom of the market, with all the risks and caveats that dealing at a low level intimates.

Sure there are honest dealers on ebay and genuine non dealer sellers too. There are also peddlers of fakes and sellers who are there to deliberately take you for a ride. God grant you the wisdom to distinguish between the two and all the shades of grey that seperate them.

[David Flynn]

Keith, I think you may have overlooked another possibility. Some people who have bought swords and for whatever reason, they now wished them sold. If offered to a dealer, the chances are, they will be offered, nowhere near the money paid. In this case, ebay is a better option.

[Curran]

What Flynn said

 

I've listed two things on ebay.

One of them is a nicer Akasaka tsuba that a dealer was offering me .60 cents on the $USD in Tampa.

He came back at .66 cents on the $USD for 3 tsuba at the end of the Tampa show, 2:30-3pm on Sunday.

Then it would be on his website at 120% of what I think is fair value, as he gets ready for haggling. For him it is 'just business and inventory', where he needs make it worth his time. I can't really blame him, as I understand time value very well.

 

I'd had a good show and a decent experience on eBay recently, so decided to tell him 'No' and go home with the 3 tsuba.

I was going to ship the Akasaka off to another dealer, let the dealer list it and take his commission. On a whim and a glass of wine, I decided to list it on eBay. Half way through listing, I almost cancelled it and said, "nah, off to the dealer". This is sort of an experiment as to whether I list any other tsuba on eBay.

 

I like working with Ed Marshall as a collector who deals a bit (I think Fred Geyer falls into this camp too), but some of the others have a very interesting view of fittings. They view them as side-dishes not worth papers (many aren't on a financial % value basis), and descriptions or values are the wild west. I do hate how much crap is floated on eBay, but once in a while it is just easier to list a single tsuba or two there.

[sanjuro]

David and Curran

 

I have overlooked a number of possibilities not just this one. However, I'm dealing here on general principles, and I did say....

 

Sure there are honest dealers on ebay and genuine non dealer sellers too.

 

I then balanced it by the caveat......

There are also peddlers of fakes and sellers who are there to deliberately take you for a ride. God grant you the wisdom to distinguish between the two and all the shades of grey that separate them.

 

The unfortunate thing about ebay is that the opportunity it offers to the honest seller, to sell their goods without the high premium of doing so through a dealer, it also offers with equal impunity to those sellers who are less than honest, and sometimes downright dishonest. As with any unregulated market it abounds with the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

No offense intended to those on the board who have listings on ebay, since this is just my take on ebay generally.

[cuttingedge59]

Hi all ,

Here is an example of an e-bay listening as mentioned in my last post . Please bear with me as I have very little knowledge regarding the judgement on fittings and are more than likely grabbed by the papers ( possibly a degree of safety ) and in some cases the shinny bits.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6011-Japanese-S ... 4ac1fecf51

 

Chris

[Soshin]

Hi Chris,

 

Looking on my IPhone looks like a nice tsuba to me with NBTHK Hozon paper from Japan. Love the mon designs.

 

Hi Keith,

 

No worries. At the shows I get in a showing and buying mode not a selling mode. Had a fair number of offers from people that normally don't like Namban tsuba at the Tampa show I generally just ignored the offers and try to changed the subject. At home I get into the selling mode on NMB and eBay. I had a major collection reduction last year with a dealer which included two papered tsuba. Sold some nicer pices to fund a major purchase from a member of message board in December. All the selling is just to partially fund the hobby as I often don't break even and need to make up the difference with money from the paycheck of my day job. I think it is partly due to the fact that when I find something nice I keep it and add it to the don't sell list.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Brian]

That is one of the prime candidate sellers I was refering to. Flashy stuff that often doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Look at that tsuba's close-ups. Is it really well done? I know the 2 mon are nicely done, but that groundwork, iron, condition etc....

If you are in Japan, it is easy enough to submit masses of tsuba to shinsa, as papers only verify makers and not quality in many cases.

Not for me. At $100, yes. But it won't stay there. And who is Goto Sochi? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4560

 

Brian

[Soshin]

Hi Brian R.,

 

I wasn't saying I would bid on the tsuba as I am beyond that point in the hobby. But for a beginner it really isn't a bad tsuba to bid on and you know that it authentic. Sorry if I didn't state this in my original post.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Brian]

David,

No worries, was more directed at the OP. Not much you could have seen on the iPhone.

No..not terrible if it stayed low...but my point is that just because something has papers, doesn't make it a bargain. Let's see what it fetches.

I like the soft metalwork there, it is the rest that is ho-hum for me. But then I see this a lot on eBay. Small pics look great. Open them fully, and most of the flash goes away.

 

Brian

[cuttingedge59]

Thanks all for your input .

The real problem i have which is driven by my original post is I have an edo mounted tachi with nbthk papers for the blade that has an awful tsuba mounted that is just all wrong and very much not original as the whole thing flops round like a fish out of water. what i was hopeing for was a replacement with the nakago opening and tsuba thickness more in keeping with the blade . lean towards tsuba's done in the Sukashi style.

As an engineer this an easy fix as long as i can find something appropiate. I am also aware of Greys website and items.

Many thanks for your comments.

Chris

[sanjuro]

Chris.

 

Suggestion: Put up pics of the tachi and its koshirae. You never know what's out here in NMB land, and maybe one of us owns a tsuba we are willing to part with that will suit your sword, your pocket and your taste. Apart from that, we are a curious bunch that likes pictures. Myself in particular since I collect tachi and tachi tosogu :D

[tanto]

Another reason why you see less and less swords for sale on ebay is that ebay created an buyer market to scam seller very easily. I stop selling on ebay for 2 years.