Yoshisuke Mei Opinions?

[Chako]

Hello all,

Is it possible for anyone here to verify gimei or not on this "Yoshisuke saku" tanto mei? I appreciate your time and opinions.

Best, Chako

J. R. Lowe

[Jean]

Yoshisuke or Gisuke, Shimada school, Suruga province. Founder pf the Shimada school, great influence from Soshu Odawara but also of Mino, I have a tanto from Sukemune with togari.

 

I have often seen tanto from this school with a very great turnback. From memory several generations from 15th to 16th century, the blade could match Gisuke work but I don't like the mei. I cannot check the mei at the time being and won't be before a fortnight.

[NihontoEurope]

Jean,

 

Can you post some images?

 

I tried to post some of mine, but I got some errors.

 

Trying again this afternoon.

 

/Martin

[Jean]

Impossible to post any pictures for a fornight. I am camping in the living room while the rest of the flat is being paperwalled. I am posting from my ipad.

[NihontoEurope]

Tobubetsu Kicho Paper?

 

/Martin

[mdiddy]

Here are a couple of scans of oshigata to help.

 

Nihon Toko Jiten:

 

 

Nihonto Zuikan:

 

 

[Chako]

Hello mdiddy, thanks for taking the time to post the pages. I can usually find a good mei photo online from one of the shops or auction houses but could'nt this time. My untrained eye doesn't see too many similarities in the two "saku" mei choices from your posting, unfortunately. I'll be interested in other's opinions. Thank you again and best regards, JR Lowe

[lbkmd43]

shimada yoshisuke hamon had a peculuar shape in the tanis (valley) it reverted to suguha he is well known for this type work also his boshi was usually different on both sides his nakago was slightly rounded on one side LKanarekMD

[SalaMarcos]

Thank you very much for this post, it helped me so much to find about the mei of this strange and beautiful kubikiri

[Brian]

[Toryu2020]

Marcos

Youll want to post photos of the bare blade if you have them and examine every detail of the hada and hamon carefully. Usually that amount of sori indicates a re-temper...

-t

[Gunome]

Hello

Usually that amount of sori indicates a re-temper...

Not sure in that case, look at the nakago, the sori seems to be also present in the nakago.

Retrempering is only the cutting part of the blade, not the whole blade, that exclude nakago.

 

I already saw a same kind of sword: deep sori like this one and a court koshirae with large end (sorry I forgot the name of this kind of koshirae).

I second Thomas, more photos will be appreciated.

[SalaMarcos]

As you desire

And I don't think it's reforged.

This is a private colecction from Spain. He buyed this kubikiri in the 70's , know he passed away and I ask his widow to see his collection.

[Brian]

I don't know what it is, but it is not a kubikiri. Cutting edge on the wrong side.

Maybe one of those oddities made by a smith just because he could.

[SalaMarcos]

This woman has also in the collection this... seems kubikiri, and this has the edge on the other side...but for me seems a "nata" for gardening.

[Guido]

Maybe one of those oddities made by a smith just because he could.

 

おそらく ...

[Brian]

Confusing....

That translates to "probably" according to Google. But also to osoraku. And I know this isn't osoraku zukuri

So you are either saying it probably is made because he could...or giving an example (osoraku) of shapes made for no real reason except that they could.

Either way...same result I guess.

[Guido]

That was Shimada Sukemune's answer when asked why he forged such a peculiar blade - it can be taken to mean "because I could".

[Brian]

Learn something new every day

http://www.to-ken.com/full.php?article=sr000094&type=home

 

 

This sugata is quite rare and was originally invented in the sue-koto period by Shimada Sukemune, who made it for the Sengoku general, Katagiri Katsumoto. The sword had an enigmatic horimono comprising of the characters O-SO-RA-KU (translated as "perhaps") carved on the blade and so the sugata became known as Osoraku-tsukuri

[Ron STL]

Blade kanji is just "Bishu Osafune Kanemitsu" from what I can tell. I found a extreme sori blade like this back in 2004 in a collection I purchased. It seems I found reference to this shape, but can't find any notes on it. I thought one of the NMB members may have bought it from me back then. Strange shape, for sure. Ron STL