george trotter Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Hi all, I notice that the Rikugun Jumei Tosho Nakata Kanehide had a younger brother called Matsubara (Shozo) Kaneyoshi (Slough p.73). Kaneyoshi was a Kaigun Jumei Tosho and like his brother Kanehide studied under Watanabe Kanenaga and Niwa Kanenobu (father). I have not seen his work and have not knowingly had a KJT blade in hand. I realise that almost no info is available on KJT operations or smiths and thus we don't? know who they are, but has anyone knowingly seen their work...is there a mark/stamp to look for? Maybe our gendaito guys as a group have some snippets of info from which we could build a "mini" database? Regards, Quote
Ed Harbulak Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 I own a kai gunto that is signed Hoki (no) Ju Maeda Yoshi(Gi)Teru Saku and is dated A day in August, 1944. Yoshiteru is listed on p.170 of Gendai Toko Meikan, p. 771 of Toko Taikan and is Hawley YOS-1710. According to my hopefully correct translation of Gendai Toko Meikan and information I found some time ago on Aoi Arts web site when one of his blades was offered for sale, his real name is Maeda Kitaro, born May 3, 1902 in tottori prefecture. He learned to forge swords under the Maeda Tadayoshi clan and during the war forged about 200 swords under exclusive contract as a smith to the navy base at Miho. After WWII he made a fresh start in 1972 and got his sword smith's license at age 67. It would seem he did not work as a smith for the years right after WWII until perhaps after he retired and then studied to get his license. At age 67, perhaps making swords was then more of a hobby than a business for him. While working for the navy, he entered 7 blades in the 1944 Teiten Shinsakuto Exhibit and also entered the 1945 Army Gunto Sword Exhibit. The sword I have appears to be a well forged gendaito although being in WWII polish makes it harder to see all the details. There are no stamps of any kind on the nakago. The sword is in kai gunto mounts so it would seem that there might also have been people at or near the naval base making mountings for the blades Yoshiteru made. Were there other smiths also located at the Miho naval base? I have no idea. I also don't know where they obtained tamahagane or if they perhaps made their own. There is obviously a lot we still don't know about WWII Japanese swords, particularly naval blades, so this is a good topic to investigate. I hope this little bit helps. Ed Harbulak 1 Quote
cabowen Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 I have seen a few smiths noted in the literature as being Kaigun Jumei Tosho. I have always assumed that this was either a typo or a program that never really got off the ground. I have never seen such a program referenced in any war era literature, or in anything after that for that matter. Quote
george trotter Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Posted February 12, 2013 Thanks Ed and Chris. I too have noticed the occasional reference to Navy smith in Japanese books. This indicates that some are be known. I wonder why the navy smiths are not at least as noticed as the RJT for the army? Perhaps it means that KJT were engaged on an intermittant basis rather than on a scheme system like RJT? Such a history and listing of smiths would be of interest to us gendaito shushuka in the west. Of course, it may be a bit academic as one of the "hard" things about navy sword collecting is that they are so much rarer than army swords...most have been lost and also, as there may not be an inspection mark, how can we know...other than the smith name being noted as a navy smith. Your sword sounds interesting Ed. You have done some good research. Well, I suppose all we can do is keep notes whenever a navy mounted gendaito pops up. Thanks, Quote
cabowen Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 ...I wonder why the navy smiths are not at laest as noticed as the RJT ? Such a history and listing of smiths would be of interest to us gendaito shushuka in the west. Most likely, because as I said, there really wasn't much, if any, of a naval JT program..... Quote
Photios Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 Well, I suppose all we can do is keep notes whenever a navy mounted gendaito pops up. Coincidentally, this week I was offered to buy this sword. If I read well: Bishu ju Masayasu kitau kore (Slough p. 108). For interest some pictures. Quote
runagmc Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 Not bad mounts and nice suguta... Quote
cabowen Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 Generally speaking, placing a bare blade on a rock surface doesn't do the polish any good.... Quote
Photios Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 Generally speaking, placing a bare blade on a rock surface doesn't do the polish any good.... Undoubtedly ... They pictures sent me seller. I did not buy this sword. Petr Quote
george trotter Posted February 16, 2013 Author Report Posted February 16, 2013 Thanks for the post petr, This is Mano Masayasu. I have seen his blades in army mounts also (usually in army) so I don't think he was a navy smith...maybe anyone could order from him. I had a blade by Tsukushi Suetsugu Shigemitsu in navy mounts, but again, I don't think he was a KJT? If anyone else has a gendai blade in navy mounts please post. Regards, Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted February 17, 2013 Report Posted February 17, 2013 Heres a kaigunto made by Ishido Teruhide ,useing the name Ishido Mitsunobu with Kao. Sorry for the poorly made oshigata. Blade needs polish and a shirasaya. Nakago has some rust I need to remove. Quote
Daniele83 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Posted June 16, 2016 hello to all, my name is Daniele and I am Italian. From 2013 that I have a passion for this wonderful art of Japanese sword. Excuse me for my English , if there can be a katana I show interest in my possession with related images and data sheet: KATANA Gendaito in shirasaya dated 1943 and signed Kaneyoshi.Kaneyoshi Civil name Matsubara Shozo born in Taisho10 (1921) and died in Showa41 (1966) 18 August blacksmith Navy, student Watanabe Kanenaga and younger brother Tanaka Kanehide.The katana in question presents a NBTHK Kicho certificate dated 1970, in addition to that the blade has a sayagaki ("Kaneyoshi , forged in the style of the Mino Yoshisada school. Signed on the ura : an April day of the 18th year Showa era (1943 ) . Length : 2 shaku , two sun and 8 bu . Family owned Sonobe "). Below the data sheet:School: MinoNagasa: 69.3 cmSori: 1.8 cmMoto-haba: 3.1 cmSaki-haba: 2.0 cmMoto-gasane: 0.7 cmSaki-gasane: 0.6 cmOverall length: 89.5 cmNakago: Ubu (20.8 cm) common formKissaki: Chu-kissaki (3.0 cm) round FukuraBoshi: Ko maruSugata: Tori-zori, iori-mune, shinogi-zukuri, oroshi kindNakagojiri: He Agari kurijiriYasurime: TakanohaHada: NashijiHamon and activities: suguha, ara nie, nie-ji, Yubashiriinitial part hamon: YakidashiWeight: 800 grams Quote
Stephen Posted June 16, 2016 Report Posted June 16, 2016 Welcome Danny, nice looking sword you have. Please in future start a new topic, not bring back three year old one, have fun here. Quote
Daniele83 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Posted June 23, 2016 Thanks Stephen, where can I find more information on kaigun jumei tosho swordsmith. Best regards Daniele Quote
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